5 ms·

name them so that more people are aware ... i dont think there's anything wrong with taking ad money. but consumers should be made aware of biases.

by rrishi 3y ago

nwienert 3y ago
It’s t3gg or whatever his name is. Funny story I worked at Vercel. I made this library Tamagui which solves many hard problems in the style space. One day t3 makes a YouTube video talking about styling solutions in React and he comes up with a Venn diagram explaining how no solutions solves the intersection. I was shocked! Tamagui did it exactly, it was the entire hard problem I set out to solve in creating it, and he left it out despite it having gained lots of attention right before that. I DMed him telling him he should check it out as I think it’s the holy grail he’s searching for. He replied dismissively saying something like “I don’t think so”. Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui because they are having a hard time supporting so many style solutions between their two huge projects RSC and Turbopack, they are invested in Tailwind in multiple ways and are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit. The rabbit hole goes deeper, but that’s what I’ll say.
- rrishi 3y ago
  > It’s t3dog or whatever his name is. oh ok ... i think you're thinking of t3.gg(aka theo). > Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui because they are having a hard time supporting so many style solutions between their two huge projects RSC and Turbopack, and further the higher ups there are investors in Tailwind and are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit. > The rabbit hole goes deeper, but that’s what I’ll say. fascinating ... the whole react ecosystem has become a bit of a mess with open source contributors and investors (hoping for a return) mixed in.
- Rauchg 3y ago
  > Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui No one is trying to kill Tamagui. Why would we want that? > the higher ups there are investors in Tailwind I don’t know any investors in Tailwind at Vercel. I’m certainly not one. I don’t think they’ve even taken outside investment. And it’d be against our ethical and fiduciary responsibilities to favor one solution over another on that basis. > are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit Tailwind is a great solution that’s earned the hearts and minds of the community, and that’s why we include it as an option in `create-next-app`. It’s an option because you can bring your own styling solutions to Next if you’d like (like yours: https://tamagui.dev/docs/guides/next-js https://tamagui.dev/docs/guides/next-js) Maybe your perception is backwards? Large parts of the ecosystem are consolidating on Tailwind, and it’s our job to provide sensible defaults according to that.
  - nwienert 3y ago
    People much higher than me at Vercel advocated for killing the entire category more than once.
  - redbar0n 3y ago
    being invested in something is not necessarily equal to having financially invested in it as an investor…
- swyx 3y ago
  i have my differences with theo but i disagree with your interpretation of his alignment here. he is a big vercel/nextjs/tailwind fan, but doesnt work for vercel/tailwind, just authentically likes his chosen stack. the fact that he did not give your library due consideration is not due to some big secret Vercel conspiracy, it is just a thing that happens because we are all human. It is impossible at his scale to evenly and thoroughly consider every option that people DM him. You will be better off not taking it personally - "get so good they can't ignore you", treat every dimissive "no" as a "not yet".
  - nwienert 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - radicalriddler 3y ago
      He wasn't looking for "the ultimate solution", he was laying out the process of how he ended up at B, coming from A. He's not ending the video asking for a better solution, he's saying he's found a good solution in Tailwind...
    - dang 3y ago
      Your comments have also been crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that, even if other commenters are being unfair or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- theobr 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nwienert 3y ago
    I never said you knew about it, speaking of delusions. I said you dismissed it when I brought it up, which is facts. Alongside everything else I wrote. I’m as authentic as they get, can’t say as much for everyone else.
    - radicalriddler 3y ago
      > He talked about other less popular libraries so it’s already popular enough to make the cut. [0] This implies that you think he'd have known of your library because it was bigger than others he included, and left it out (for some reason??)? I think you're being a little rough towards Theo in that video, and also to people in this thread like Swyx (basically trying to discount anything he said by calling him a vercel shill). The CSS video was literally "this is where I used to be (in this category), this is where I am now (in this category), here's another category that pretty much everyone used to be in. Here are a couple other libraries in those categories in case you wanted to compare where you're at, and whether where I'm at would be a good usecase for your team." It's really just a subjective opinion piece, and he states that he's happy where he's at, so I don't see why he'd go out of his way putting time into a library he has no plan on using in the near future (tamagui) even if it may be a better fit. It fits into a neat little bow tie of the theme of his channel and that is "these are the tools I use, and I want to talk about why I use them" and sometimes those tools give him money when he does it. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37285821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37285821
      - nwienert 3y ago
        I mean I agree with much of what you’d said, you’re interpreting me as saying I expected him to correct the record or cover it, I never did. I just was surprised that he was completely dismissive when it directly addressed some of the pain points he was talking about. And… You’re saying I’m being rough when he’s accusing me of being delusional, which is frankly so totally out of line and I think speaks to his character way more than mine.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  Tamagui is a great UI library, thanks for your work!

name them so that more people are aware ... i dont think there's anything wrong with taking ad money. but consumers should be made aware of biases.

by rrishi 3y ago

name them so that more people are aware ... i dont think there's anything wrong with taking ad money. but consumers should be made aware of biases.

nwienert 3y ago

It’s t3gg or whatever his name is. Funny story I worked at Vercel. I made this library Tamagui which solves many hard problems in the style space. One day t3 makes a YouTube video talking about styling solutions in React and he comes up with a Venn diagram explaining how no solutions solves the intersection. I was shocked! Tamagui did it exactly, it was the entire hard problem I set out to solve in creating it, and he left it out despite it having gained lots of attention right before that. I DMed him telling him he should check it out as I think it’s the holy grail he’s searching for. He replied dismissively saying something like “I don’t think so”. Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui because they are having a hard time supporting so many style solutions between their two huge projects RSC and Turbopack, they are invested in Tailwind in multiple ways and are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit. The rabbit hole goes deeper, but that’s what I’ll say.

rrishi 3y ago
> It’s t3dog or whatever his name is. oh ok ... i think you're thinking of t3.gg(aka theo). > Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui because they are having a hard time supporting so many style solutions between their two huge projects RSC and Turbopack, and further the higher ups there are investors in Tailwind and are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit. > The rabbit hole goes deeper, but that’s what I’ll say. fascinating ... the whole react ecosystem has become a bit of a mess with open source contributors and investors (hoping for a return) mixed in.
Rauchg 3y ago
> Turns out Vercel are trying to kill solutions like Tamagui No one is trying to kill Tamagui. Why would we want that? > the higher ups there are investors in Tailwind I don’t know any investors in Tailwind at Vercel. I’m certainly not one. I don’t think they’ve even taken outside investment. And it’d be against our ethical and fiduciary responsibilities to favor one solution over another on that basis. > are trying to consolidate styling around it for their own ecosystem benefit Tailwind is a great solution that’s earned the hearts and minds of the community, and that’s why we include it as an option in `create-next-app`. It’s an option because you can bring your own styling solutions to Next if you’d like (like yours: https://tamagui.dev/docs/guides/next-js https://tamagui.dev/docs/guides/next-js) Maybe your perception is backwards? Large parts of the ecosystem are consolidating on Tailwind, and it’s our job to provide sensible defaults according to that.
- nwienert 3y ago
  People much higher than me at Vercel advocated for killing the entire category more than once.
- redbar0n 3y ago
  being invested in something is not necessarily equal to having financially invested in it as an investor…
swyx 3y ago
i have my differences with theo but i disagree with your interpretation of his alignment here. he is a big vercel/nextjs/tailwind fan, but doesnt work for vercel/tailwind, just authentically likes his chosen stack. the fact that he did not give your library due consideration is not due to some big secret Vercel conspiracy, it is just a thing that happens because we are all human. It is impossible at his scale to evenly and thoroughly consider every option that people DM him. You will be better off not taking it personally - "get so good they can't ignore you", treat every dimissive "no" as a "not yet".
- nwienert 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - radicalriddler 3y ago
    He wasn't looking for "the ultimate solution", he was laying out the process of how he ended up at B, coming from A. He's not ending the video asking for a better solution, he's saying he's found a good solution in Tailwind...
  - dang 3y ago
    Your comments have also been crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that, even if other commenters are being unfair or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
theobr 3y ago
[flagged]
- nwienert 3y ago
  I never said you knew about it, speaking of delusions. I said you dismissed it when I brought it up, which is facts. Alongside everything else I wrote. I’m as authentic as they get, can’t say as much for everyone else.
  - radicalriddler 3y ago
    > He talked about other less popular libraries so it’s already popular enough to make the cut. [0] This implies that you think he'd have known of your library because it was bigger than others he included, and left it out (for some reason??)? I think you're being a little rough towards Theo in that video, and also to people in this thread like Swyx (basically trying to discount anything he said by calling him a vercel shill). The CSS video was literally "this is where I used to be (in this category), this is where I am now (in this category), here's another category that pretty much everyone used to be in. Here are a couple other libraries in those categories in case you wanted to compare where you're at, and whether where I'm at would be a good usecase for your team." It's really just a subjective opinion piece, and he states that he's happy where he's at, so I don't see why he'd go out of his way putting time into a library he has no plan on using in the near future (tamagui) even if it may be a better fit. It fits into a neat little bow tie of the theme of his channel and that is "these are the tools I use, and I want to talk about why I use them" and sometimes those tools give him money when he does it. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37285821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37285821
    - nwienert 3y ago
      I mean I agree with much of what you’d said, you’re interpreting me as saying I expected him to correct the record or cover it, I never did. I just was surprised that he was completely dismissive when it directly addressed some of the pain points he was talking about. And… You’re saying I’m being rough when he’s accusing me of being delusional, which is frankly so totally out of line and I think speaks to his character way more than mine.
meiraleal 3y ago
Tamagui is a great UI library, thanks for your work!