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> I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this I think yo

> I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this I think you misunderstood users, it's not just ignorance. I want apps to go back in the direction of real(not cordova) apps, not some low effort web thing. Basically zero web apps match the experience of a well crafted actual app.

l72 3y ago
I agree with you in many cases. At my professional company, we've made the decision to write native apps for Android, iOS, Windows, and the web, because we have pretty deep integration into each platform and want the best native experience for our users. But, for my personal apps (which is what I am talking about in this thread), I can't support that. Writing it once and maintaining it takes up enough of my free time. This app also doesn't have any integration with the system, and has a minimal interface, so it works quite well as a web app.
- zaat 3y ago
  The app my accountant provide me - a white-label finance app with the firm logo on it - used to be native. The developers had issues with updating the app to support a change in the camera API and I couldn't scan papers. They sent me get web app instead. Now whenever I use phone's native back button/gesture the app quits instead of going back within the app, there's a functional in-app back button, but my instincts will never disappear selectivity when I'm using their app. I have quit their app million times half-way of filling forms. Terrible UX.
  - themerone 3y ago
    In a properly coded single page application, the back button works as expected.
    - FridgeSeal 3y ago
      As keeps getting pointed out, every. Time. This. Gets. Raised: evidently most SPA’s are not written properly, because “back button not working properly” is easily one of the most common complaints.
      - themerone 3y ago
        It's not a complaint I've received about my applications. 15 years ago, getting it right took a ton development time, but today there are frameworks that handle it with minimal effort.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- scarface_74 3y ago
  > This app also doesn't have any integration with the system And this is suppose to be an argument for web apps?
  - anders_p 3y ago
    Yes? The WHOLE POINT of native apps is that they are better at integrating with the system. Like access storage, gps, camera, accelerometer/gyroscope, etc. Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      > Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to. You realize you’re still not exactly making your case for web apps right?
      - anders_p 3y ago
        You do understand that not every developer is backed by billions of dollars of venture capital, right? That there are people who have to target multiple operating systems, and don't have 100+ people working on their team, right? I mean...it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a benefit to being able to write code once and deploy to ALL users/customers without having to dedicate entire teams of developers with expertise in various platforms. I'm an Android developer with 10+ years of experience. I take pride in my native apps that I code for the company I work for. They are far superior to any web app or "multiplatform framework solution". But if I had to create my own personal app, there's no way in hell I'd spend years learning everything it would take to create a native iOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS version. I'd be an absolute idiot if I didn't just choose a solution, like a web app, or framework that was able to output for more systems, etc.
    - TexanFeller 3y ago
      That's not the only point. Web apps can have far lower performance or battery utilization than real native apps for one thing. If you care about the environment or your battery life use a compiled app, not the web.
BaseballPhysics 3y ago
I used to think that, and then I started using Phanpy and Voyager. PWAs can be surprisingly good if they're done well. The problem is the mobile platforms have done nothing to optimize the experience or encourage their development and so the good examples are few and far between.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
olalonde 3y ago
Would you prefer having no app at all or a Cordova/PWA app? Because those are often the only realistic options for one-man/small teams.
- TexanFeller 3y ago
  Usually I would prefer no app. Better than wasting my time downloading an app, being disappointed that it was noticeably "web", and ditching it. Low effort implementations also make it harder for the grass of better native apps to grow amidst the web based weeds.
fauigerzigerk 3y ago
We love to discuss technology on here and I have my own opinions about that, but to be honest, as a user I have found absolutely no correlation between the underlying technologies and how well an app works for me. It often hinges on seemingly small design decisions that make some frequent task either a breeze or a constant annoyance. There aren't many cases where making the right design decision depends on whether or not the code is "native". I believe the most important distinction is whether the motivation for making an app is economically aligned with my motivation for using it and sustainably so. It's not primarily a technology issue.
curt15 3y ago
>I think you misunderstood users, it's not just ignorance. I want apps to go back in the direction of real(not cordova) apps, not some low effort web thing. Basically zero web apps match the experience of a well crafted actual app. For me, it also depends on how integral internet access is to the application's function. When I'm on my computer and want to check the weather, I don't want to launch a separate application. I just google "weather". I agree that games probably belong as standalone desktop/mobile applications and similarly for other programs requiring deep integration with OS APIs. But if an app mostly wraps content that's already available via a website (e.g. starbucks.com, subway.com, or news sites), I'd rather just use a full-blooded web browser.

l72 3y ago

I agree with you in many cases. At my professional company, we've made the decision to write native apps for Android, iOS, Windows, and the web, because we have pretty deep integration into each platform and want the best native experience for our users. But, for my personal apps (which is what I am talking about in this thread), I can't support that. Writing it once and maintaining it takes up enough of my free time. This app also doesn't have any integration with the system, and has a minimal interface, so it works quite well as a web app.

zaat 3y ago
The app my accountant provide me - a white-label finance app with the firm logo on it - used to be native. The developers had issues with updating the app to support a change in the camera API and I couldn't scan papers. They sent me get web app instead. Now whenever I use phone's native back button/gesture the app quits instead of going back within the app, there's a functional in-app back button, but my instincts will never disappear selectivity when I'm using their app. I have quit their app million times half-way of filling forms. Terrible UX.
- themerone 3y ago
  In a properly coded single page application, the back button works as expected.
  - FridgeSeal 3y ago
    As keeps getting pointed out, every. Time. This. Gets. Raised: evidently most SPA’s are not written properly, because “back button not working properly” is easily one of the most common complaints.
    - themerone 3y ago
      It's not a complaint I've received about my applications. 15 years ago, getting it right took a ton development time, but today there are frameworks that handle it with minimal effort.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
scarface_74 3y ago
> This app also doesn't have any integration with the system And this is suppose to be an argument for web apps?
- anders_p 3y ago
  Yes? The WHOLE POINT of native apps is that they are better at integrating with the system. Like access storage, gps, camera, accelerometer/gyroscope, etc. Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    > Besides that the only benefit of a native app is basically that the UI/UX will be closer to what the user is accustomed to. You realize you’re still not exactly making your case for web apps right?
    - anders_p 3y ago
      You do understand that not every developer is backed by billions of dollars of venture capital, right? That there are people who have to target multiple operating systems, and don't have 100+ people working on their team, right? I mean...it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a benefit to being able to write code once and deploy to ALL users/customers without having to dedicate entire teams of developers with expertise in various platforms. I'm an Android developer with 10+ years of experience. I take pride in my native apps that I code for the company I work for. They are far superior to any web app or "multiplatform framework solution". But if I had to create my own personal app, there's no way in hell I'd spend years learning everything it would take to create a native iOS, Windows, Linux, MacOS version. I'd be an absolute idiot if I didn't just choose a solution, like a web app, or framework that was able to output for more systems, etc.
  - TexanFeller 3y ago
    That's not the only point. Web apps can have far lower performance or battery utilization than real native apps for one thing. If you care about the environment or your battery life use a compiled app, not the web.

BaseballPhysics 3y ago

I used to think that, and then I started using Phanpy and Voyager. PWAs can be surprisingly good if they're done well. The problem is the mobile platforms have done nothing to optimize the experience or encourage their development and so the good examples are few and far between.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

olalonde 3y ago

Would you prefer having no app at all or a Cordova/PWA app? Because those are often the only realistic options for one-man/small teams.

TexanFeller 3y ago
Usually I would prefer no app. Better than wasting my time downloading an app, being disappointed that it was noticeably "web", and ditching it. Low effort implementations also make it harder for the grass of better native apps to grow amidst the web based weeds.

fauigerzigerk 3y ago

We love to discuss technology on here and I have my own opinions about that, but to be honest, as a user I have found absolutely no correlation between the underlying technologies and how well an app works for me. It often hinges on seemingly small design decisions that make some frequent task either a breeze or a constant annoyance. There aren't many cases where making the right design decision depends on whether or not the code is "native". I believe the most important distinction is whether the motivation for making an app is economically aligned with my motivation for using it and sustainably so. It's not primarily a technology issue.

curt15 3y ago

>I think you misunderstood users, it's not just ignorance. I want apps to go back in the direction of real(not cordova) apps, not some low effort web thing. Basically zero web apps match the experience of a well crafted actual app. For me, it also depends on how integral internet access is to the application's function. When I'm on my computer and want to check the weather, I don't want to launch a separate application. I just google "weather". I agree that games probably belong as standalone desktop/mobile applications and similarly for other programs requiring deep integration with OS APIs. But if an app mostly wraps content that's already available via a website (e.g. starbucks.com, subway.com, or news sites), I'd rather just use a full-blooded web browser.