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It’s like the Ford Edsel; WordPress is so wrapped up in their own technology and echo chamber that they won’t even see a better product coming to the market wit

It’s like the Ford Edsel; WordPress is so wrapped up in their own technology and echo chamber that they won’t even see a better product coming to the market with features that customers are actually asking for. https://github.com/elegantframework/elegant-cli https://github.com/elegantframework/elegant-cli

withinboredom 3y ago
You're assuming that people want a static site. WordPress isn't just static sites.
- hoofhearted 3y ago
  It’s not about being a static website. It’s about using the latest cutting edge technology to build the best possible web application for uses. “Best” as in; Perfect SEO, Simple theming, Fastest loading possible, Secure, Simple and affordable hosting, and so on. WordPress is very dated, and they are very comfortable in their niche. The reason they maintain the market share that they do is because there just isn’t a better option for users currently. But to address your static comment; It in my opinion that most most blog sites store static text that never changes in a database, and a backend server has to query for data and return it to the frontend. This workflow seems a bit overly complex when I could just store the text in a document, and eliminate the need for a backend server or database. The internet as we know it was created so that CERN could share static text documents with others. Why don’t we bring the web back to that?
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    > Fastest loading possible, Secure, Simple and affordable hosting, and so on. You know that WordPress is actually fast, right? A vanilla install on a crappy $2 a month server will return a response in a few ms. The problem with WordPress are the plugins and the lack of vetting/rules/oversight. And when they do apply their rules, they apply them in ridiculous ways -- for example, I submitted a plugin that was a wrapper around an open source project, with the project's permission, and was denied because I wasn't the author of the project and the author of the project had no desire to interact with shenanigans like that. These plugins can do virtually anything and do really "bad" (as in performance and security) things. If you are doing everything in-house and at least reading/contributing to the plugin code before accepting an external plugin, you can host very performant websites. I'd even venture to suspect that all these plugins is an indication that people want more functionality than can ever be achieved in a competitor ... but to be clear, there are some pretty solid competitors. These competitors are entirely closed-source, so, choose your poison I guess. > Why don’t we bring the web back to that? I know people who host an entire school (very niche skill) online. Their entire thing is built on WordPress. I know of quite a few sites actually running their entire user-facing stack on WordPress (usually with a backend API running Go/C# or something). I even know of some very popular money-management apps where the entire app is just running in WordPress. The internet isn't just static pages, that ship sailed 3+ decades ago.
    - hoofhearted 3y ago
      The MVP that we launched a few months ago already was more optimized and faster than the website hosted at Wordpress.com The MVP also is cheaper to host compared to the hosting solution you suggested. https://www.elegantframework.com/blog/2023-04-05-elegant-framework-v2-0-alpha https://www.elegantframework.com/blog/2023-04-05-elegant-fra...
      - withinboredom 3y ago
        Yes, but static sites aren't even a competition with WordPress. WordPress doesn't do anything with static site hosting. I'm not precisely defending WordPress here though, I'm just pointing out that I feel like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Reach out to me via email, I used to work at Automattic/WordPress.com and I'd love to hear more about what you're working on.

withinboredom 3y ago

You're assuming that people want a static site. WordPress isn't just static sites.

hoofhearted 3y ago
It’s not about being a static website. It’s about using the latest cutting edge technology to build the best possible web application for uses. “Best” as in; Perfect SEO, Simple theming, Fastest loading possible, Secure, Simple and affordable hosting, and so on. WordPress is very dated, and they are very comfortable in their niche. The reason they maintain the market share that they do is because there just isn’t a better option for users currently. But to address your static comment; It in my opinion that most most blog sites store static text that never changes in a database, and a backend server has to query for data and return it to the frontend. This workflow seems a bit overly complex when I could just store the text in a document, and eliminate the need for a backend server or database. The internet as we know it was created so that CERN could share static text documents with others. Why don’t we bring the web back to that?
- withinboredom 3y ago
  > Fastest loading possible, Secure, Simple and affordable hosting, and so on. You know that WordPress is actually fast, right? A vanilla install on a crappy $2 a month server will return a response in a few ms. The problem with WordPress are the plugins and the lack of vetting/rules/oversight. And when they do apply their rules, they apply them in ridiculous ways -- for example, I submitted a plugin that was a wrapper around an open source project, with the project's permission, and was denied because I wasn't the author of the project and the author of the project had no desire to interact with shenanigans like that. These plugins can do virtually anything and do really "bad" (as in performance and security) things. If you are doing everything in-house and at least reading/contributing to the plugin code before accepting an external plugin, you can host very performant websites. I'd even venture to suspect that all these plugins is an indication that people want more functionality than can ever be achieved in a competitor ... but to be clear, there are some pretty solid competitors. These competitors are entirely closed-source, so, choose your poison I guess. > Why don’t we bring the web back to that? I know people who host an entire school (very niche skill) online. Their entire thing is built on WordPress. I know of quite a few sites actually running their entire user-facing stack on WordPress (usually with a backend API running Go/C# or something). I even know of some very popular money-management apps where the entire app is just running in WordPress. The internet isn't just static pages, that ship sailed 3+ decades ago.
  - hoofhearted 3y ago
    The MVP that we launched a few months ago already was more optimized and faster than the website hosted at Wordpress.com The MVP also is cheaper to host compared to the hosting solution you suggested. https://www.elegantframework.com/blog/2023-04-05-elegant-framework-v2-0-alpha https://www.elegantframework.com/blog/2023-04-05-elegant-fra...
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      Yes, but static sites aren't even a competition with WordPress. WordPress doesn't do anything with static site hosting. I'm not precisely defending WordPress here though, I'm just pointing out that I feel like you're comparing Apples to Oranges. Reach out to me via email, I used to work at Automattic/WordPress.com and I'd love to hear more about what you're working on.