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That’s because pronatalism is just an excuse that people like Musk hide behind in order to justify their misogynistic lifestyles. Seriously, how many children w

That’s because pronatalism is just an excuse that people like Musk hide behind in order to justify their misogynistic lifestyles. Seriously, how many children with how many partners does he have now?

concordDance 3y ago
It's really not, it's a genuine concern many people have. I know some.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  Right, but this article points out very clearly how Musk’s actions are actually making it harder for people to have children. The control that his class demands on capital and labor is actively harming reproduction. Fundamentally, billionaires don’t want to recognize that they are the problem, they’re happy just talking about the problem and making their own dozen “personal” contributions to progeny to help out those that are bound to the full time job. What heroes they are.
  - morelisp 3y ago
    There is no actual problem! They invent the "problem" so they can propose plans to "solve" it which drive society towards outcomes more favorable to them.
  - joe__f 3y ago
    I think they've learnt by to ignore feedback that they're pushing people too hard. Then over a period of years they learn by experience that they can get what they want out of people if they continue to push. So they have first hand evidence that bullying the people you're leading works.
  - TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
    It's an interesting point that despite claiming to be a pronatalist Elon Musk demands hardcore work hours from his employees, which one would expect leaves very little time for developing relationships and eventually having children. I wish there were more candid interviews with people where these topics and other difficult questions were discussed openly. I'd love to hear how Elon would respond.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    Musk has a belief that its a big problem, but is unwilling to do things against his self interest like admitting that wfh is important for having kids. This is regular human hypocrisy where you honestly think X (e.g. CO2 emissions) is bad, but aren't willing to admit that Y (e.g. drive smaller cars) is required to help X because it would reqire a personal sacrifice (or be seen as inconsistent).
    - tzs 3y ago
      It's not necessarily hypocrisy. People often have several different things they support, and it is quite common that something that advances one of those things impedes another of those things. They could limit themselves to actions that do not impede any of their goals, but those actions also often only minimally advance any of their goals. Often the fastest and most efficient way to achieve all of the goals is to do things that cause big advances on some of them even if they also cause backsliding in others. Example: let us say you have two goals. These are your available actions: 1. An action that makes a 1% advance toward both goals (% measured relative to the total work needed to accomplish that goal from start to finish). 2. An action that makes a 20% advance on goal #1 but sets you back 5% on goal #2. 3. An action that makes a 20% advance on goal #2 but sets you back 5% on goal #1. You can do one action per month. If you just use the action that doesn't set back any of your goals, it takes a little over 8 years to achieve both goals If you alternate actions #2 and #3, then every 2 months you end up gaining 15% net on both goals. It takes about 14 months now to achieve both goals.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    > The control that his class demands on capital and labor is actively harming reproduction. Birthrates are plunging in welfare states with generous support for those who want to raise a child. Can this really be blamed on mere capitalist exploitation?
- sct202 3y ago
  A lot of people have concerns but few seem to do anything about it but talk. My parents and friends parents complain for grandkids but offer no help either in time or money to make it more realistic to have and raise children.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    And others have 6 kids or campaign for wfh or increased paternity leave. Maybe in the sampling of people you know few do anything, but of the ones I know most try.
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    I experienced the same thing. The economy that shaped their worldview is gone and probably isn’t ever coming back. The ideal “middle class” lifestyle is eroding away underneath rising real estate prices and fewer good jobs.

concordDance 3y ago

It's really not, it's a genuine concern many people have. I know some.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Right, but this article points out very clearly how Musk’s actions are actually making it harder for people to have children. The control that his class demands on capital and labor is actively harming reproduction. Fundamentally, billionaires don’t want to recognize that they are the problem, they’re happy just talking about the problem and making their own dozen “personal” contributions to progeny to help out those that are bound to the full time job. What heroes they are.
- morelisp 3y ago
  There is no actual problem! They invent the "problem" so they can propose plans to "solve" it which drive society towards outcomes more favorable to them.
- joe__f 3y ago
  I think they've learnt by to ignore feedback that they're pushing people too hard. Then over a period of years they learn by experience that they can get what they want out of people if they continue to push. So they have first hand evidence that bullying the people you're leading works.
- TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
  It's an interesting point that despite claiming to be a pronatalist Elon Musk demands hardcore work hours from his employees, which one would expect leaves very little time for developing relationships and eventually having children. I wish there were more candid interviews with people where these topics and other difficult questions were discussed openly. I'd love to hear how Elon would respond.
- concordDance 3y ago
  Musk has a belief that its a big problem, but is unwilling to do things against his self interest like admitting that wfh is important for having kids. This is regular human hypocrisy where you honestly think X (e.g. CO2 emissions) is bad, but aren't willing to admit that Y (e.g. drive smaller cars) is required to help X because it would reqire a personal sacrifice (or be seen as inconsistent).
  - tzs 3y ago
    It's not necessarily hypocrisy. People often have several different things they support, and it is quite common that something that advances one of those things impedes another of those things. They could limit themselves to actions that do not impede any of their goals, but those actions also often only minimally advance any of their goals. Often the fastest and most efficient way to achieve all of the goals is to do things that cause big advances on some of them even if they also cause backsliding in others. Example: let us say you have two goals. These are your available actions: 1. An action that makes a 1% advance toward both goals (% measured relative to the total work needed to accomplish that goal from start to finish). 2. An action that makes a 20% advance on goal #1 but sets you back 5% on goal #2. 3. An action that makes a 20% advance on goal #2 but sets you back 5% on goal #1. You can do one action per month. If you just use the action that doesn't set back any of your goals, it takes a little over 8 years to achieve both goals If you alternate actions #2 and #3, then every 2 months you end up gaining 15% net on both goals. It takes about 14 months now to achieve both goals.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  > The control that his class demands on capital and labor is actively harming reproduction. Birthrates are plunging in welfare states with generous support for those who want to raise a child. Can this really be blamed on mere capitalist exploitation?
sct202 3y ago
A lot of people have concerns but few seem to do anything about it but talk. My parents and friends parents complain for grandkids but offer no help either in time or money to make it more realistic to have and raise children.
- concordDance 3y ago
  And others have 6 kids or campaign for wfh or increased paternity leave. Maybe in the sampling of people you know few do anything, but of the ones I know most try.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  I experienced the same thing. The economy that shaped their worldview is gone and probably isn’t ever coming back. The ideal “middle class” lifestyle is eroding away underneath rising real estate prices and fewer good jobs.