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Not everyone needs an app. I’d argue that most products don’t need an app and would be better off with a fast website or web app that is responsive. A good resp

Not everyone needs an app. I’d argue that most products don’t need an app and would be better off with a fast website or web app that is responsive. A good responsive web app will work on all devices and let you avoid the boundaries of the Apple and Google stores. You’ll reach more people faster, ship updates faster, engage with more open source tools, and benefit from the constant arms race that is improving performance of browsers. If anything, the need for everything to have an app or be a SPA is a fad. The complexity felt by every tiny team and product who thinks they must have multiple languages and deployment pipelines and microservices just because $BIGTECH does it is tragic. I’ve been a professional React developer for years, I love React and I have primarily built complex SPAs that truly required this technology, but I’ve also seen so many companies and people pouring energy into APIs and SPAs and apps that just should have been nice web sites sprinkled with JavaScript. RSC is right at home with the countless server-rendered frameworks that were born before the “API ALL THE THINGS!” era. I’m building a product right now and it feels like being back in Rails, except I have TypeScript and I can drop into a client component at any time. And I can build an API endpoint when I need to for views that absolutely must have that SPA feel, since sometimes you do need that. Or ask anyone working with Phoenix LiveView, or modern Rails with Hotwire, or folks building in Django with htmx. The orthodoxy of “you must have an app” can’t be put to bed fast enough.

gochi 3y ago
I fundamentally disagree with this. There is zero logical reason why everyone cannot have an app. We create unintentional barriers to such for no real logical reason. Web apps are an example of this!
- SamBam 3y ago
  So I need to have as many apps as the number of websites I visit in a month? Hacker news, Reddit, NY Times, other news sites, BoingBoing, my kids' school, each restaurant, each airline I might ever book, Craigslist, etc etc etc? That's ridiculous. Browsers exist for a reason.
  - jfengel 3y ago
    I agree, and yet a lot of users seem to expect apps. To them, if you only have a web site you look unprofessional. Even though we all know perfectly well that most apps are repackaged web sites.
    - manvillej 3y ago
      I don't think I have ever felt that only a website feels unprofessional. Anecdotal, but still. A well built, well designed, responsive site is all I need to know that someone is on top of it. I'd rather see them do 1 method very well than 2 methods haphazardly
  - gochi 3y ago
    Most of those sites operate as apps, and browsers have mostly become an OS. So yes, that does fit my perspective.
  - nsonha 3y ago
    Many of those websites don't even need to exist, as pure informational portals. They should just be boards in a (indeally decentralized, uniform) network of news source
- yourad_io 3y ago
  Web apps are the barrier? That are accessible to anyone with a browser? Or gate-kept app stores?
- sickcodebruh 3y ago
  Can you elaborate on this? In particular, the use of "everyone" -- do you really mean everyone? Can you describe some of the common arguments about why not everyone can have an app and explain why they are logically wrong?
  - gochi 3y ago
    Yes, I mean everyone. What we currently deal with are artificial limits imposed by gatekeepers (app stores), and web developers (particularly ones that want to use backend as collateral control). Neither of these are technical problems that should exist.
    - sickcodebruh 3y ago
      That reads quite differently from your statement. The limits imposed by app stores are real challenges that keep people from building apps. That’s a very logical reason to avoid it. It seems your original statement would be better phrased, “There is no logical reason why there should be so many boundaries preventing everyone from having an app.” But even then, it ignores the technical hurdles an individual or organization must leap to build an app. Languages and ecosystems to learn, full of idiosyncrasies and best practices. Complexities of deployment pipelines, seeking incompatibilities between devices. I’ve worked with Android before and lemme tell you, I’ll move to a different industry before I do that again. (Kotlin is wonderful, at least!) Compared to web, where you pick the browsers you want to support and it works. Where there is constant warfare between vendors to improve performance and get closer to the native experience. Where you have a massive pool of talent and a low barrier to entry. How is this even close?
      - nsonha 3y ago
        Obviously they're arguing from a pragmatic point of view, as opposed to one in which we (some) software engineers somehow control reality and successfully impose that's ideal to them.
  - nsonha 3y ago
    Does the average user have their homescreen on the phone full of web apps bookmarked? I don't think so.

gochi 3y ago

I fundamentally disagree with this. There is zero logical reason why everyone cannot have an app. We create unintentional barriers to such for no real logical reason. Web apps are an example of this!

SamBam 3y ago
So I need to have as many apps as the number of websites I visit in a month? Hacker news, Reddit, NY Times, other news sites, BoingBoing, my kids' school, each restaurant, each airline I might ever book, Craigslist, etc etc etc? That's ridiculous. Browsers exist for a reason.
- jfengel 3y ago
  I agree, and yet a lot of users seem to expect apps. To them, if you only have a web site you look unprofessional. Even though we all know perfectly well that most apps are repackaged web sites.
  - manvillej 3y ago
    I don't think I have ever felt that only a website feels unprofessional. Anecdotal, but still. A well built, well designed, responsive site is all I need to know that someone is on top of it. I'd rather see them do 1 method very well than 2 methods haphazardly
- gochi 3y ago
  Most of those sites operate as apps, and browsers have mostly become an OS. So yes, that does fit my perspective.
- nsonha 3y ago
  Many of those websites don't even need to exist, as pure informational portals. They should just be boards in a (indeally decentralized, uniform) network of news source
yourad_io 3y ago
Web apps are the barrier? That are accessible to anyone with a browser? Or gate-kept app stores?
sickcodebruh 3y ago
Can you elaborate on this? In particular, the use of "everyone" -- do you really mean everyone? Can you describe some of the common arguments about why not everyone can have an app and explain why they are logically wrong?
- gochi 3y ago
  Yes, I mean everyone. What we currently deal with are artificial limits imposed by gatekeepers (app stores), and web developers (particularly ones that want to use backend as collateral control). Neither of these are technical problems that should exist.
  - sickcodebruh 3y ago
    That reads quite differently from your statement. The limits imposed by app stores are real challenges that keep people from building apps. That’s a very logical reason to avoid it. It seems your original statement would be better phrased, “There is no logical reason why there should be so many boundaries preventing everyone from having an app.” But even then, it ignores the technical hurdles an individual or organization must leap to build an app. Languages and ecosystems to learn, full of idiosyncrasies and best practices. Complexities of deployment pipelines, seeking incompatibilities between devices. I’ve worked with Android before and lemme tell you, I’ll move to a different industry before I do that again. (Kotlin is wonderful, at least!) Compared to web, where you pick the browsers you want to support and it works. Where there is constant warfare between vendors to improve performance and get closer to the native experience. Where you have a massive pool of talent and a low barrier to entry. How is this even close?
    - nsonha 3y ago
      Obviously they're arguing from a pragmatic point of view, as opposed to one in which we (some) software engineers somehow control reality and successfully impose that's ideal to them.
- nsonha 3y ago
  Does the average user have their homescreen on the phone full of web apps bookmarked? I don't think so.