5 ms·

France to spend €200M on destroying excess wine as demand falls

15 points by perihelions 3y ago

Bostonian 3y ago
Obviously the government should think about the welfare of the general population, not just the winemakers. Instead of destroying wine, the government should sell it at market prices.
- zahma 3y ago
  You must not have read the article all the way through: the problem — if we can call it that — is a decrease in consumption but not in viniculture, hence the issue of a market glut. I do not know which kinds of wine are to be destroyed, but I’d hazard a guess that it isn’t the kind that ages well.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    A decrease in the consumption of wine can be fixed with a decrease in the price of wine.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      Not always, and not always possible. There is definitely more non-alcoholic consumption in the UK, with the major supermarkets allocating larger sections for AF beer. I don't know about the situation in France, but it would hit exports here in addition to Brexit problems. I presume you are implying that the folks who aren't going sober will just consume more to offset if prices decrease, but there is going to be a limit to the amount they can.
    - ahoka 3y ago
      But then you domino other producers to stop being profitable. Also, people will not want to drink more low quality bulk wine if it’s cheaper.
- gizajob 3y ago
  The government could also just pile it up in the town squares of France, as freebies from the EU for everyone. Would be gone in a day. Seems strange to “destroy it” when the public will do it for free and it’s been subsidised and paid for. Unlikely I realise, but it’s not like wine goes off. Maybe they need the space for the next load of wine they’re going to cellar and then destroy… Plus the article says the alcohol from the destroyed wine can be reused - seems like a bit of an effort to go through given the alcohol content of around 12%.
  - ffhhttt 3y ago
    Those people then will buy less wine negating the entire point of this whole thing.
    - gizajob 3y ago
      Yes but at the same time, the people have paid for the wine - so the government is saying “you can’t have this wine you paid for, you have to buy more, even though you’re buying less wine”. The operation might stimulate an interest in wine and drinking, causing an increase in wine sales afterwards.
      - ffhhttt 3y ago
        Why would they buy it in the first place then? The entire point of this is to decrease the oversupply of wine. If anything this would make it worse assuming some proportion of the wine they bought would’ve been exported. > the people have paid for the wine Yes, it’s definitely unfair. So are gazilions of other subsidies paid out by most governments.
- danielfoster 3y ago
  I'm not defending bailouts of winemakers, but based on my knowledge of the industry, the government would simply be unable to sell the wine at market prices. They would probably need to be sold at a loss. France has been over-producing low-quality wine for a long time, mostly in the south as referenced in the article. These bottles normally sell for 2-5 euros at retail within Europe. There is a massive amount of competition at this price point. Also not mentioned in the article is that French wine is falling out of favor in lower price categories. Spanish and Portugese wines are growing in popularity as are so-called "natural" wines.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Excess production of wine not wanted by the market will continue since the government is effectively, and nonsensically, susidising it.
    - ffhhttt 3y ago
      A lot of other countries are doing something similar with diary or other food products. You don’t want to lose the capacity to produce vital products like wine or cheese in case some unexpected event happens. What if 30% of all wineries close and you have a severe drought in a few years. It would result in a extreme humanitarian tragedy…
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  The government should stay out of it. If winemakers produce wine that the market does not want they should change or go under.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Wine is at the extreme end, but the subsidy is to preserve food security and jobs in rural communities. It applies to a wide range of agricultural goods and basic products of those goods (cheese, wine etc).
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      Wine is not really critical for food security, even in France. Their wheat farmers are. No, in France there are two aspects: first, the wine lobby is powerful. Second, vineyards and wine are seen are very symbolically important for the country and its identity, down to how the countryside looks.
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  That would being down the market price which is exactly what they’re trying to avoid. Maybe they could send/smuggle it to others countries (e.g. Scandinavia) and sell it at 50% of what they paid though.
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
I got sober at the beginning of the year and it’s been the single best lifestyle decision I’ve ever made. There’s definitely a growing sobriety movement, at least in the US, I’ve noticed a major shift in bars accommodating non-drinkers in the last couple of years.
- ericfrazier 3y ago
  Same. But the social life took a nose dive as a result. Still trying to figure that one out.
  - arp242 3y ago
    What problems do you experience? Genuine question, because it seems to me you can still go out and just drink non-alcoholic stuff? I've never really done it myself, but I've had several friends over the years who didn't drink, and their social lives seemed fine.
    - zimpenfish 3y ago
      As a teetotaller for many years (35->20 years ago), the quantity of social life was fine but the quality often wasn't great - aside from the constant questions about why not drinking, etc., the gradual slide of everyone else into drunken shouting instead of conversation was a suboptimal experience. Gets wearing after a while.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  There's a wide spectrum between drinking too much and not drinking at all.
  - bjoli 3y ago
    Yet a lot of people end up on the wrong side of it once or twice in their post-25-life
- OJFord 3y ago
amriksohata 3y ago
The UK is a big importer of French wine
A1vis 3y ago
- One of your officials pays farmers to produce surplus food while the next office pays people to destroy the surpluses. - That's not true! - No? - It's not the next office, not even the same floor!
Canada 3y ago
Can't they just save it for later?
xbmcuser 3y ago
I am not a drinker nor do I do pot so I could be wrong but I think in the west at least a lot of people are moving away from getting drunk to getting high.
dsign 3y ago
Can they use the excess of wine to make some sort of non-alcoholic beverage? If my local supermarket sold "soda made of repurposed French wine" I would definitely buy a bunch of it and drink it at each social occasion, provided that the labeling on the can or bottle uses very big letters to state "this soda is made from French wine surplus." The real thing I wouldn't consume, it's bad for my health.
- Leherenn 3y ago
  The BBC article has a bit more details. The alcohol will be reused for hand sanitizers, cleaning products and perfume.
- casta 3y ago
  Boisson sells smth similar to what you described: https://boisson.co/ https://boisson.co/ I got a few bottles since my GF is pregnant. IIRC the bottles I got were from Germany. My GF claims they taste more like kombucha than sparkling wine.
vongomben 3y ago
The article does not say which kind of wine we are speaking of. If good wine, wouldn't they just store it and wait for the prices to go up again limiting production?

15 points by perihelions 3y ago

Obviously the government should think about the welfare of the general population, not just the winemakers. Instead of destroying wine, the government should sell it at market prices.

zahma 3y ago
You must not have read the article all the way through: the problem — if we can call it that — is a decrease in consumption but not in viniculture, hence the issue of a market glut. I do not know which kinds of wine are to be destroyed, but I’d hazard a guess that it isn’t the kind that ages well.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  A decrease in the consumption of wine can be fixed with a decrease in the price of wine.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Not always, and not always possible. There is definitely more non-alcoholic consumption in the UK, with the major supermarkets allocating larger sections for AF beer. I don't know about the situation in France, but it would hit exports here in addition to Brexit problems. I presume you are implying that the folks who aren't going sober will just consume more to offset if prices decrease, but there is going to be a limit to the amount they can.
  - ahoka 3y ago
    But then you domino other producers to stop being profitable. Also, people will not want to drink more low quality bulk wine if it’s cheaper.
gizajob 3y ago
The government could also just pile it up in the town squares of France, as freebies from the EU for everyone. Would be gone in a day. Seems strange to “destroy it” when the public will do it for free and it’s been subsidised and paid for. Unlikely I realise, but it’s not like wine goes off. Maybe they need the space for the next load of wine they’re going to cellar and then destroy… Plus the article says the alcohol from the destroyed wine can be reused - seems like a bit of an effort to go through given the alcohol content of around 12%.
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  Those people then will buy less wine negating the entire point of this whole thing.
  - gizajob 3y ago
    Yes but at the same time, the people have paid for the wine - so the government is saying “you can’t have this wine you paid for, you have to buy more, even though you’re buying less wine”. The operation might stimulate an interest in wine and drinking, causing an increase in wine sales afterwards.
    - ffhhttt 3y ago
      Why would they buy it in the first place then? The entire point of this is to decrease the oversupply of wine. If anything this would make it worse assuming some proportion of the wine they bought would’ve been exported. > the people have paid for the wine Yes, it’s definitely unfair. So are gazilions of other subsidies paid out by most governments.
danielfoster 3y ago
I'm not defending bailouts of winemakers, but based on my knowledge of the industry, the government would simply be unable to sell the wine at market prices. They would probably need to be sold at a loss. France has been over-producing low-quality wine for a long time, mostly in the south as referenced in the article. These bottles normally sell for 2-5 euros at retail within Europe. There is a massive amount of competition at this price point. Also not mentioned in the article is that French wine is falling out of favor in lower price categories. Spanish and Portugese wines are growing in popularity as are so-called "natural" wines.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  Excess production of wine not wanted by the market will continue since the government is effectively, and nonsensically, susidising it.
  - ffhhttt 3y ago
    A lot of other countries are doing something similar with diary or other food products. You don’t want to lose the capacity to produce vital products like wine or cheese in case some unexpected event happens. What if 30% of all wineries close and you have a severe drought in a few years. It would result in a extreme humanitarian tragedy…
mytailorisrich 3y ago
The government should stay out of it. If winemakers produce wine that the market does not want they should change or go under.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Wine is at the extreme end, but the subsidy is to preserve food security and jobs in rural communities. It applies to a wide range of agricultural goods and basic products of those goods (cheese, wine etc).
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    Wine is not really critical for food security, even in France. Their wheat farmers are. No, in France there are two aspects: first, the wine lobby is powerful. Second, vineyards and wine are seen are very symbolically important for the country and its identity, down to how the countryside looks.
ffhhttt 3y ago
That would being down the market price which is exactly what they’re trying to avoid. Maybe they could send/smuggle it to others countries (e.g. Scandinavia) and sell it at 50% of what they paid though.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago

I got sober at the beginning of the year and it’s been the single best lifestyle decision I’ve ever made. There’s definitely a growing sobriety movement, at least in the US, I’ve noticed a major shift in bars accommodating non-drinkers in the last couple of years.

ericfrazier 3y ago
Same. But the social life took a nose dive as a result. Still trying to figure that one out.
- arp242 3y ago
  What problems do you experience? Genuine question, because it seems to me you can still go out and just drink non-alcoholic stuff? I've never really done it myself, but I've had several friends over the years who didn't drink, and their social lives seemed fine.
  - zimpenfish 3y ago
    As a teetotaller for many years (35->20 years ago), the quantity of social life was fine but the quality often wasn't great - aside from the constant questions about why not drinking, etc., the gradual slide of everyone else into drunken shouting instead of conversation was a suboptimal experience. Gets wearing after a while.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
There's a wide spectrum between drinking too much and not drinking at all.
- bjoli 3y ago
  Yet a lot of people end up on the wrong side of it once or twice in their post-25-life
OJFord 3y ago

amriksohata 3y ago

The UK is a big importer of French wine

A1vis 3y ago

- One of your officials pays farmers to produce surplus food while the next office pays people to destroy the surpluses. - That's not true! - No? - It's not the next office, not even the same floor!

Canada 3y ago

Can't they just save it for later?

xbmcuser 3y ago

I am not a drinker nor do I do pot so I could be wrong but I think in the west at least a lot of people are moving away from getting drunk to getting high.

dsign 3y ago

Can they use the excess of wine to make some sort of non-alcoholic beverage? If my local supermarket sold "soda made of repurposed French wine" I would definitely buy a bunch of it and drink it at each social occasion, provided that the labeling on the can or bottle uses very big letters to state "this soda is made from French wine surplus." The real thing I wouldn't consume, it's bad for my health.

Leherenn 3y ago
The BBC article has a bit more details. The alcohol will be reused for hand sanitizers, cleaning products and perfume.
casta 3y ago
Boisson sells smth similar to what you described: https://boisson.co/ https://boisson.co/ I got a few bottles since my GF is pregnant. IIRC the bottles I got were from Germany. My GF claims they taste more like kombucha than sparkling wine.

vongomben 3y ago

The article does not say which kind of wine we are speaking of. If good wine, wouldn't they just store it and wait for the prices to go up again limiting production?