6 ms·

This may work for non-neurotic people but laying still in bed is when the demons in my mind come out to play and remind me of all of my problems.

kaffeeringe 3y ago
Then you should take some time earlier and face the demons while you are not trying to sleep. You have to think about thing - if you don't do it at day-time, the brain will force you at night.
- taneq 3y ago
  Often there's more demons than there are hours in the day.
- nerdchum 3y ago
  Genius!
siva7 3y ago
There’s always an ipad or iphone in the bed to hush away the demons :)
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  I discovered that having my phone next to my bed makes it too easy to say ‘ah, I can’t sleep, let’s just check HN for a while’, and it also makes it too easy to turn off my alarm in the morning. I’ve started putting it at the other end of my room before sleeping, and so far the results are promising.
microtonal 3y ago
In my experience lying still doesn't really work, because it's a deliberate practice with a goal and your brain starts analyzing that as well. You know the inner voice that says: I am still not calming down, I am still awake. I once read that sleep therapists sometimes give people with bad sleeping problems the opposite advice: keep your eyes slightly open and try to stay awake. Not in the sense that you should put on loud music, put lucifers between your eyelids, etc. But just lie down and don't try to fall asleep. It often works, because people let go of the goal to calm down and get asleep (which makes it hard to do exactly that), once you let go, your body does what it wants to do, calm down and sleep. A similar approach works very well for me: just stop caring. Ensure that you are on a regular schedule for going to bed and waking up (so that you biological clock doesn't get confused), don't drink alcohol (bad sleep quality), don't do anything exciting the hours before going to bed (heated discussions on HN), and write down stuff that bothers you before going to bed. Let your body do the rest. If you are awake for some more time, then just interpret it as: my body isn't tired yet, I am just going to enjoy the cosiness of my bed. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor/therapist.
- djtango 3y ago
  This agrees with all those times I wake up a bit before my alarm rings and then I can't go back to sleep UNTIL my alarm rings and then suddenly all I want to do is drift off...
- dimask 3y ago
  People are different, so it is hard to make some advice that works for everybody. That being said, I totally agree with your conclusion. You do not have to lie still in order to go to sleep, or any other reason. In some sense, if you are in such a situation (being tired, needing to wake up early etc), lying still in the bed is already better than any alternative you can do, eg staying in front of a screen. Sometimes you may sleep. Sometimes you may not sleep. Ime, under this intention, it becomes easier and easier to sleep. Just do not put sleep in your mind as a goal, accept that you may not sleep or you may sleep (even better cultivate being indifferent towards either outcome) and lie still. Personally I have learnt that lying still is more important than eventually sleeping or not. It can even be enjoyable in itself. Disclaimer: I have only had insomnia episodes that have lasted up to a month or so, so more chronic episodes can be different.
- mrob 3y ago
  Relevant Bob the Angry Flower comic: http://www.angryflower.com/221.html http://www.angryflower.com/221.html Instead of trying to focus on nothing at all, the standard trick to get around this problem is to focus on something extremely boring, such as your own breathing. The traditional "counting sheep" method of sleep induction could be considered a variant of this.
  - bengale 3y ago
    I use audiobooks that I’ve listened to many times. I know exactly what’s coming so it’s a bit boring but I can focus on the words.
    - dharmab 3y ago
      I use MandaloreGaming's videos. They're longform content that I like, since I'm not learning new/essential information I can tune in and out, and his voice isn't too harsh.
scns 3y ago
Shavasana or Corpse Pose in Yoga is exactly this. Some say it is the hardest Asana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavasana?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavasana?wprov=sfla1
toddmorey 3y ago
Podcasts have been a godsend for me. I can’t lay in silence, either, because then my mind just races. But with a podcast you can just close your eyes and listen. It almost takes me back to my parents reading to me. Science / nature podcasts work really well. I avoid true crime, social issues, politics, tech, or work topics. The Ologies podcast is amazing. There’s even a podcast called Nothing Really Happens designed to help insomniacs sleep.
- Tempest1981 3y ago
  Yep, pick one where the host has a monotone voice, and play it at 0.75x speed
  - samstave 3y ago
    Lex Fridman (love him) has the most monotone voice and at 1.25 he still sounds like .75... Ill put on long form pods so I dont have to mess with anything until I fall asleep. Here is one thing that happens very often to me. I have always been a rather lucid dreamer, vivid dreamer, and I have had dream story lines last literally decades in my dreams. I have had dreams where I have a story take place - then that story will continue like a year or two later, and I recall how they connect. Anyway - Ill be listening to a podcast, and then every DreamNPC will be talking to me but whats coming out of their mouths, are the voices from the podcast. i.e. One dream, I was rescuing my daughter from a car crash and taking her to the hospital, and everyone at the hospital was insisting on taking my daughter to mars. And I was running to get her out of the hospital and away from all the people in there trying to take her to Mars... (I was listening to a long form pod of colonizing mars/getting to mars etc... and thats what all the NPCs were spewing to me. Also - there are several triggers that alert me to the fact that I am dreaming: I attempt to use my phone in any capacity - its impossible to press digits - and eventually my phone will crumble/disintegrate in my hand - and this alerts me that I am in a dream and I am aware of it. If I attempt to read numbers - such as those on a price tag for an item in a store. Once I realize how hard it is to read any numbers - I am aware I a dreaming. If I am trying to clean up a mess - I cannot pick things up, and I wobble-around as if I am black-out drunk and keep falling over and dropping the things I am trying to clean up - then I realize its a dream. Also, I have several 'dream houses' and 'dream neighborhoods' that I am familiar with in my dreams - and when I see them/am in them again, I know I am dreaming. But sometimes, the dreams are so intense, that when I wake up I can still be confused thinking that some aspects of the dream actually happened, and it takes me a moment to register that these things were from the dream, not wokeness :-) - There have been times where I realize I am dreaming, then I force myself to 'wake-up' and I believe that I am woken up, but then one of the above triggers happens, and I realize I am still in the dream.. sometimes multiple times in the same dream - this one is scary though, because this happens when all my surroundings in the dream are the same as my real-life surroundings, and so it takes one of the triggers for me to recognize that I am actually dreaming... Also, I have had dreams that I can recall from when I was a kid, then I have an experience in real-life - and then I can remember the dream from when I experienced it as a kid... (like a weird deja-vu dream-wormhole.) I love dreaming -and I have a terrible general memory for daily mundane things - but I can vividly remember my dreams.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
haswell 3y ago
I’m pretty high on the neurotic scale. Two things that have helped me immensely: 1) I turn on an audio book that I love and know well with a 30 minute sleep timer. Recently this is the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. It doesn’t keep me awake because I already know the story well. But it keeps my mind occupied enough to avoid the rumination. Podcasts don’t work for me because it’s new material. 2) Guided Yoga Nidra in bed. This involves a long sequence of instructions to notice and relax individual areas of the body. Thumb, index finger, middle finger, ring finger, pinkie finger, front of the hand, back of the hand, wrist, and so on. This keeps the mind occupied and also helps release tension.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  I use soccer podcasts. Not American pundits who like to argue with each other loudly, but brits who don't raise their voices, yapping about teams I don't have any particular emotional connection to, with nothing particularly insightful to say about them...
  - dagurp 3y ago
    I heard they are good during vasectomies as well
93po 3y ago
From the age of 11 to mid 30s I found it very difficult to sleep without being able to listen to something to distract myself for the same reason. Being in a dark silent room with my eyes shut was the worst thing ever. A few things really helped me. The first was meditation because it allows you to become mindful of your feelings and recognize what you’re feeling. This mindfulness makes it much easier to practice emotional regulation, which is essential for self soothing. And finally ER allowed me to learn to love myself and separate myself from my bad past experiences and mistakes. Journaling about your demons and past cringe or dramatic or bad experiences in extreme detail also helps a lot. Bonus for journaling in a way that is compassionate to yourself
xeromal 3y ago
Gotta count sheep. You need to create noise in your brain while also letting that noise be something harmless that lets you sleep.
maerF0x0 3y ago
I likely am far less neurotic than you, but for me I've found reading fiction really helps to clear out the thoughts that are keeping me awake.

kaffeeringe 3y ago

Then you should take some time earlier and face the demons while you are not trying to sleep. You have to think about thing - if you don't do it at day-time, the brain will force you at night.

taneq 3y ago
Often there's more demons than there are hours in the day.
nerdchum 3y ago
Genius!

siva7 3y ago

There’s always an ipad or iphone in the bed to hush away the demons :)

Tijdreiziger 3y ago
I discovered that having my phone next to my bed makes it too easy to say ‘ah, I can’t sleep, let’s just check HN for a while’, and it also makes it too easy to turn off my alarm in the morning. I’ve started putting it at the other end of my room before sleeping, and so far the results are promising.

microtonal 3y ago

In my experience lying still doesn't really work, because it's a deliberate practice with a goal and your brain starts analyzing that as well. You know the inner voice that says: I am still not calming down, I am still awake. I once read that sleep therapists sometimes give people with bad sleeping problems the opposite advice: keep your eyes slightly open and try to stay awake. Not in the sense that you should put on loud music, put lucifers between your eyelids, etc. But just lie down and don't try to fall asleep. It often works, because people let go of the goal to calm down and get asleep (which makes it hard to do exactly that), once you let go, your body does what it wants to do, calm down and sleep. A similar approach works very well for me: just stop caring. Ensure that you are on a regular schedule for going to bed and waking up (so that you biological clock doesn't get confused), don't drink alcohol (bad sleep quality), don't do anything exciting the hours before going to bed (heated discussions on HN), and write down stuff that bothers you before going to bed. Let your body do the rest. If you are awake for some more time, then just interpret it as: my body isn't tired yet, I am just going to enjoy the cosiness of my bed. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor/therapist.

djtango 3y ago
This agrees with all those times I wake up a bit before my alarm rings and then I can't go back to sleep UNTIL my alarm rings and then suddenly all I want to do is drift off...
dimask 3y ago
People are different, so it is hard to make some advice that works for everybody. That being said, I totally agree with your conclusion. You do not have to lie still in order to go to sleep, or any other reason. In some sense, if you are in such a situation (being tired, needing to wake up early etc), lying still in the bed is already better than any alternative you can do, eg staying in front of a screen. Sometimes you may sleep. Sometimes you may not sleep. Ime, under this intention, it becomes easier and easier to sleep. Just do not put sleep in your mind as a goal, accept that you may not sleep or you may sleep (even better cultivate being indifferent towards either outcome) and lie still. Personally I have learnt that lying still is more important than eventually sleeping or not. It can even be enjoyable in itself. Disclaimer: I have only had insomnia episodes that have lasted up to a month or so, so more chronic episodes can be different.
mrob 3y ago
Relevant Bob the Angry Flower comic: http://www.angryflower.com/221.html http://www.angryflower.com/221.html Instead of trying to focus on nothing at all, the standard trick to get around this problem is to focus on something extremely boring, such as your own breathing. The traditional "counting sheep" method of sleep induction could be considered a variant of this.
- bengale 3y ago
  I use audiobooks that I’ve listened to many times. I know exactly what’s coming so it’s a bit boring but I can focus on the words.
  - dharmab 3y ago
    I use MandaloreGaming's videos. They're longform content that I like, since I'm not learning new/essential information I can tune in and out, and his voice isn't too harsh.

scns 3y ago

Shavasana or Corpse Pose in Yoga is exactly this. Some say it is the hardest Asana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavasana?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavasana?wprov=sfla1

toddmorey 3y ago

Podcasts have been a godsend for me. I can’t lay in silence, either, because then my mind just races. But with a podcast you can just close your eyes and listen. It almost takes me back to my parents reading to me. Science / nature podcasts work really well. I avoid true crime, social issues, politics, tech, or work topics. The Ologies podcast is amazing. There’s even a podcast called Nothing Really Happens designed to help insomniacs sleep.

Tempest1981 3y ago
Yep, pick one where the host has a monotone voice, and play it at 0.75x speed
- samstave 3y ago
  Lex Fridman (love him) has the most monotone voice and at 1.25 he still sounds like .75... Ill put on long form pods so I dont have to mess with anything until I fall asleep. Here is one thing that happens very often to me. I have always been a rather lucid dreamer, vivid dreamer, and I have had dream story lines last literally decades in my dreams. I have had dreams where I have a story take place - then that story will continue like a year or two later, and I recall how they connect. Anyway - Ill be listening to a podcast, and then every DreamNPC will be talking to me but whats coming out of their mouths, are the voices from the podcast. i.e. One dream, I was rescuing my daughter from a car crash and taking her to the hospital, and everyone at the hospital was insisting on taking my daughter to mars. And I was running to get her out of the hospital and away from all the people in there trying to take her to Mars... (I was listening to a long form pod of colonizing mars/getting to mars etc... and thats what all the NPCs were spewing to me. Also - there are several triggers that alert me to the fact that I am dreaming: I attempt to use my phone in any capacity - its impossible to press digits - and eventually my phone will crumble/disintegrate in my hand - and this alerts me that I am in a dream and I am aware of it. If I attempt to read numbers - such as those on a price tag for an item in a store. Once I realize how hard it is to read any numbers - I am aware I a dreaming. If I am trying to clean up a mess - I cannot pick things up, and I wobble-around as if I am black-out drunk and keep falling over and dropping the things I am trying to clean up - then I realize its a dream. Also, I have several 'dream houses' and 'dream neighborhoods' that I am familiar with in my dreams - and when I see them/am in them again, I know I am dreaming. But sometimes, the dreams are so intense, that when I wake up I can still be confused thinking that some aspects of the dream actually happened, and it takes me a moment to register that these things were from the dream, not wokeness :-) - There have been times where I realize I am dreaming, then I force myself to 'wake-up' and I believe that I am woken up, but then one of the above triggers happens, and I realize I am still in the dream.. sometimes multiple times in the same dream - this one is scary though, because this happens when all my surroundings in the dream are the same as my real-life surroundings, and so it takes one of the triggers for me to recognize that I am actually dreaming... Also, I have had dreams that I can recall from when I was a kid, then I have an experience in real-life - and then I can remember the dream from when I experienced it as a kid... (like a weird deja-vu dream-wormhole.) I love dreaming -and I have a terrible general memory for daily mundane things - but I can vividly remember my dreams.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

haswell 3y ago

I’m pretty high on the neurotic scale. Two things that have helped me immensely: 1) I turn on an audio book that I love and know well with a 30 minute sleep timer. Recently this is the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. It doesn’t keep me awake because I already know the story well. But it keeps my mind occupied enough to avoid the rumination. Podcasts don’t work for me because it’s new material. 2) Guided Yoga Nidra in bed. This involves a long sequence of instructions to notice and relax individual areas of the body. Thumb, index finger, middle finger, ring finger, pinkie finger, front of the hand, back of the hand, wrist, and so on. This keeps the mind occupied and also helps release tension.

lamontcg 3y ago
I use soccer podcasts. Not American pundits who like to argue with each other loudly, but brits who don't raise their voices, yapping about teams I don't have any particular emotional connection to, with nothing particularly insightful to say about them...
- dagurp 3y ago
  I heard they are good during vasectomies as well

93po 3y ago

From the age of 11 to mid 30s I found it very difficult to sleep without being able to listen to something to distract myself for the same reason. Being in a dark silent room with my eyes shut was the worst thing ever. A few things really helped me. The first was meditation because it allows you to become mindful of your feelings and recognize what you’re feeling. This mindfulness makes it much easier to practice emotional regulation, which is essential for self soothing. And finally ER allowed me to learn to love myself and separate myself from my bad past experiences and mistakes. Journaling about your demons and past cringe or dramatic or bad experiences in extreme detail also helps a lot. Bonus for journaling in a way that is compassionate to yourself

xeromal 3y ago

Gotta count sheep. You need to create noise in your brain while also letting that noise be something harmless that lets you sleep.

maerF0x0 3y ago

I likely am far less neurotic than you, but for me I've found reading fiction really helps to clear out the thoughts that are keeping me awake.