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>>Whats the point of being a billionare if you cant even build your own city? Are you even hearing yourself? Cities existed before billionares did. Society ex

>>Whats the point of being a billionare if you cant even build your own city? Are you even hearing yourself? Cities existed before billionares did. Society existed before pricks with god complexes started thinking that order and society organized the other way around. Get off from Rand. Learn some actual history.

archibaldJ 3y ago
It’s not God complex. Society doesn’t come into existence by itself in hunter-gathering time. It starts off with someone self-identifying as the chief/shaman and who is socially approved. Starting a small settlement / community is not a small feat. It requires lots of organizing top-level-down. And then fast forwards million of years later we have religions and government and we start paying taxes without asking lots of questions while also taking everything for granted. Religions and governments were considered a progressive thing 2000 years ago. But then gradually in the past 100 years we started to see disentanglement between these two. And now we are here. And now we are starting enter the aeon of AI. Now it is good time to fix many real-world problems.
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  > Society doesn’t come into existence by itself in hunter-gathering time. Ummmmm… like how do you think cities got started?
  - microtherion 3y ago
    There's no single answer. Most of them did indeed get started organically, but some got started by dukes who were in the city starting business: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Zähringen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Zähringen Some got started by Roman Emperors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg Some got started by a country wanting a new capital: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasília https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasília And some grew organically, but were at some point or other subject to a massive master plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa... https://thegreatestgrid.mcny.org https://thegreatestgrid.mcny.org
    - piloto_ciego 3y ago
      Sure all that is true but this guy was asserting that cities didn’t just come about organically, when… well a lot of them did lol.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - archibaldJ 3y ago
    So you think cities and villages just magically got built because people would come together and interact like some kind of brownian motion? I already laid down my arguments from an anthropological perspective. There was something very special about the past 2000~4000 years (since the beginning of stone age 3 million year ago, and anatomically modern humans 300,000 years ago) and that is why at the year 2024AD, things have progressed into the current state. (Or why have we not progressed faster as a civilization/species?) It's about cost and the sustaining of people's attention and work. Even for communities that started so to speak "organically", they would have dependency on some form of leadership at some points, if not throughout, or it would not be self-sustainable and grow to scale up e.g. into a village/city.
    - piloto_ciego 3y ago
      There are a lot of assertions in your post. Again, take an anthro class or at least read about the origin of cities. Hell, we don’t even know if all the early ones were inhabitated year round. Nor do we know if many of the early cities required “leadership” in any real way. Also, there may be more ways to measure “progress” than you’re aware of. Depending on the metric you choose… we may not be doing as well as you’d think. Is this Steven Pinker’s nephews HN account?
      - archibaldJ 3y ago
        you are totally missing the point. whatever. At this point none-technical discussion on HN has become almost like reddit.
        piloto_ciego 3y ago
        What are you talking about? This actually is a technical discussion. You’re asserting things about the formation of cities that aren’t just unknown or mysterious, you’re asserting things that are patently untrue, then upset when someone calls you out for it lol. How Reddit is that? You’re saying, “cities require strong leadership, planning, cost, and sustaining people’s attention, and work.” (To roughly paraphrase). I’m saying, “that’s not necessarily true, we don’t know enough about this to assert this. You should read some more about it or take an anthropology class.” This is a highly technical subject, it’s just not one about computers or math or physics. Like, for some early cities we are unsure if they were even inhabited year round, for some cities it appears that there was absolutely no leadership. Maybe megalopolises requires strong central authority but I’m not so sure. Even if you spend $8b and start your own version of Fordlandia you still may not succeed at building utopia because how do you maintain things how “you want them” when people like me exist who will try to flaunt your rules? Violence?
jelliclesfarm 3y ago
So ..basically..repeat what has been done before and has failed? I live in California. We need private citizens with god complex who can do better than a govt with a god complex.

archibaldJ 3y ago

It’s not God complex. Society doesn’t come into existence by itself in hunter-gathering time. It starts off with someone self-identifying as the chief/shaman and who is socially approved. Starting a small settlement / community is not a small feat. It requires lots of organizing top-level-down. And then fast forwards million of years later we have religions and government and we start paying taxes without asking lots of questions while also taking everything for granted. Religions and governments were considered a progressive thing 2000 years ago. But then gradually in the past 100 years we started to see disentanglement between these two. And now we are here. And now we are starting enter the aeon of AI. Now it is good time to fix many real-world problems.

piloto_ciego 3y ago
> Society doesn’t come into existence by itself in hunter-gathering time. Ummmmm… like how do you think cities got started?
- microtherion 3y ago
  There's no single answer. Most of them did indeed get started organically, but some got started by dukes who were in the city starting business: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Zähringen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Zähringen Some got started by Roman Emperors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg Some got started by a country wanting a new capital: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasília https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasília And some grew organically, but were at some point or other subject to a massive master plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann%27s_renovation_of_Pa... https://thegreatestgrid.mcny.org https://thegreatestgrid.mcny.org
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    Sure all that is true but this guy was asserting that cities didn’t just come about organically, when… well a lot of them did lol.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- archibaldJ 3y ago
  So you think cities and villages just magically got built because people would come together and interact like some kind of brownian motion? I already laid down my arguments from an anthropological perspective. There was something very special about the past 2000~4000 years (since the beginning of stone age 3 million year ago, and anatomically modern humans 300,000 years ago) and that is why at the year 2024AD, things have progressed into the current state. (Or why have we not progressed faster as a civilization/species?) It's about cost and the sustaining of people's attention and work. Even for communities that started so to speak "organically", they would have dependency on some form of leadership at some points, if not throughout, or it would not be self-sustainable and grow to scale up e.g. into a village/city.
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    There are a lot of assertions in your post. Again, take an anthro class or at least read about the origin of cities. Hell, we don’t even know if all the early ones were inhabitated year round. Nor do we know if many of the early cities required “leadership” in any real way. Also, there may be more ways to measure “progress” than you’re aware of. Depending on the metric you choose… we may not be doing as well as you’d think. Is this Steven Pinker’s nephews HN account?
    - archibaldJ 3y ago
      you are totally missing the point. whatever. At this point none-technical discussion on HN has become almost like reddit.
      - piloto_ciego 3y ago
        What are you talking about? This actually is a technical discussion. You’re asserting things about the formation of cities that aren’t just unknown or mysterious, you’re asserting things that are patently untrue, then upset when someone calls you out for it lol. How Reddit is that? You’re saying, “cities require strong leadership, planning, cost, and sustaining people’s attention, and work.” (To roughly paraphrase). I’m saying, “that’s not necessarily true, we don’t know enough about this to assert this. You should read some more about it or take an anthropology class.” This is a highly technical subject, it’s just not one about computers or math or physics. Like, for some early cities we are unsure if they were even inhabited year round, for some cities it appears that there was absolutely no leadership. Maybe megalopolises requires strong central authority but I’m not so sure. Even if you spend $8b and start your own version of Fordlandia you still may not succeed at building utopia because how do you maintain things how “you want them” when people like me exist who will try to flaunt your rules? Violence?

jelliclesfarm 3y ago

So ..basically..repeat what has been done before and has failed? I live in California. We need private citizens with god complex who can do better than a govt with a god complex.