4 ms·

How can it be anti-democratic and populist at the same time?

by peter_retief 3y ago

hnhg 3y ago
You might want to read up about the Nazi party. That should give you a good enough answer.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  The Nazis were just anti-democratic full stop. They only went the political party route after Hitler ended up in jail for trying to bypass it the first time, they were doing things like beating up their opponents and they abolished it the moment he got into power.
PicassoCTs 3y ago
Cause the average voter attacks his system if it does not work for him? The acid eats the stomach? Populists do degrade the host system all the time? First the system degrades to the point it does not provide to significant part of the population. Then the populists arrive and attack the system. The excuse is usually: It aint no longer democratic anyway, as in a democratic system this whole affair could be altered by flushing the elites out. New faces time, but you still get the old faces. Which ignores the real iceberg of the problem, situational physics, for which some elites are just a drive-through-workers handing it out. If a society gets energy poor, or for example a whole planet decides to life like usa, there is simply not enough to go around for the now and the longterm. Can vote all you want against the rain, protest the sky gods, burn your leaky house down in protest, it still will pour on your head. Only thing changing the circumstances is science, by unlocking new pockets of riches. Comp science is a tremendous waste in that regard. Physics and applied physics is were its at for longterm stabilizing society. Free Energy (gas) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process feed the world, not SV.
- peter_retief 3y ago
  That kind of what democracy is though, isn't it?
mseepgood 3y ago
If 100% of voters in a democracy vote to abolish democracy it's still anti-democratic.
teraflop 3y ago
Easily. For instance, if a movement portrays itself as being supported by the common people and against the elites, then one possible next step is to argue that the mechanisms of democracy have been perverted by those elites, and therefore must be "reformed" or even swept away. (If you've been paying any attention at all to US politics in the last few years, this should sound pretty familiar.)
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  That doesn't make sense. No populist parties are arguing for the mechanisms of democracy to be "swept away". They usually want them strengthened with better security and less political censorship.

How can it be anti-democratic and populist at the same time?

hnhg 3y ago

You might want to read up about the Nazi party. That should give you a good enough answer.

nvm0n2 3y ago
The Nazis were just anti-democratic full stop. They only went the political party route after Hitler ended up in jail for trying to bypass it the first time, they were doing things like beating up their opponents and they abolished it the moment he got into power.

PicassoCTs 3y ago

Cause the average voter attacks his system if it does not work for him? The acid eats the stomach? Populists do degrade the host system all the time? First the system degrades to the point it does not provide to significant part of the population. Then the populists arrive and attack the system. The excuse is usually: It aint no longer democratic anyway, as in a democratic system this whole affair could be altered by flushing the elites out. New faces time, but you still get the old faces. Which ignores the real iceberg of the problem, situational physics, for which some elites are just a drive-through-workers handing it out. If a society gets energy poor, or for example a whole planet decides to life like usa, there is simply not enough to go around for the now and the longterm. Can vote all you want against the rain, protest the sky gods, burn your leaky house down in protest, it still will pour on your head. Only thing changing the circumstances is science, by unlocking new pockets of riches. Comp science is a tremendous waste in that regard. Physics and applied physics is were its at for longterm stabilizing society. Free Energy (gas) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process feed the world, not SV.

peter_retief 3y ago
That kind of what democracy is though, isn't it?

mseepgood 3y ago

If 100% of voters in a democracy vote to abolish democracy it's still anti-democratic.

teraflop 3y ago

Easily. For instance, if a movement portrays itself as being supported by the common people and against the elites, then one possible next step is to argue that the mechanisms of democracy have been perverted by those elites, and therefore must be "reformed" or even swept away. (If you've been paying any attention at all to US politics in the last few years, this should sound pretty familiar.)

nvm0n2 3y ago
That doesn't make sense. No populist parties are arguing for the mechanisms of democracy to be "swept away". They usually want them strengthened with better security and less political censorship.