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Only some kids truly have an aptitude for mathematics anyway. That's an absurdly strong and inaccurate statement that feeds into psychological walls that then

Only some kids truly have an aptitude for mathematics anyway. That's an absurdly strong and inaccurate statement that feeds into psychological walls that then get erected in the minds of the young and perpetuate ad infinitum. The psychological research here is very clear: stressing work, over some sort of ethereal innate 'talent', in ANY area makes a massive difference in skill attainment. I don't have time this moment to get into this in any depth, and, it depends, of course, what specifically you mean by "truly have an aptitude", but, too many people have a view of math, in particular, as some kind of magical realm only "truly accessible" to a few. There's a lot that goes into forming the basis for skill in any domain - quite a lot of that likely reflects all sorts of extremely early life parameters and events prior, even, to acquisition of language. The "playing field" is never "level" in any pursuit. But, based on my own experiences and knowledge, there's a mysticism or whatever surrounding some subjects that's just bizarre, IMO. I would personally, in light of what I've seen to date, draw a very direct analogy with the formation of an NBA player (as an example). Someone can start playing very young, become incredibly adept, and easily never get to the height, strength, etc. (typically) required to make it to NBA level. Nevertheless, these people go on to be trainers, coaches, announcers, etc. This is even more relevant in fields that aren't in the "tournament career" realm. Often, what holds people back the most, is substantially unfounded statements like yours. Here's a jumping off point for further info (not enough time to provide more complete refs, currently, apologies): https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-procrastination-equation/201110/hard-work-beats-talent-but-only-if-talent-doesnt-work-hard https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-procrastination-...

dj_mc_merlin 3y ago
Anyone can learn mathematics. Not everybody wants to or would find it useful. I feel as if you're putting a large amount of words into my mouth which I never intended -- all I meant to say was that not learning mathematics to a high level is not that bad. Lots of people have perfectly meaningful lives knowing basically no mathematics beyond middle school level, having forgotten even high school maths.
jack_pp 3y ago
Can't really compare math with basketball. Basketball is enjoyed by millions, it is a sport that is easily accessible with a very low common denominator. In order to truly enjoy math you have to have a particular kind of brain that you are indeed either born with or not. Can't say that I did enjoy math that much because I've had horrible abusive teachers but even so I liked it somewhat because I was better at it than everyone in my class. I would just read the lesson from the text book and it clicked for me instantly, not even needing teachers most of the time. I seriously doubt that literally everyone else just had mental blocks to pick up things as easily as I did. With hard work and private tutors they eventually could catch up indeed but I really doubt they enjoyed it or even needed that knowledge
synecdoche 3y ago
Dyscalculia is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia
- vixen99 3y ago
  True of course. I've seen estimates of about 10% (your link quotes 11%) of children (i.e., 90% of children don't have it) but the obvious question is on what basis what the diagnosis made? You can guarantee that only a few of those kids have had an MRI scan determining a brain structure indicative of a structural association with dyscalculia in the brain. Easy to jump to conclusions and miss many other possibilities which do not present apparently impassable barriers to learning maths.
zi6gbap22pity 3y ago
For most people, sufficient effort can guarantee a productive carrer programming computers. The absolute maximum capacity (number of people doing a thing / total number of people) of professional basketball players is much lower, and so given the amount of interest in doing said profession you end up with criteria that are very out of line with the median as far as human traits go. The height requirements for instance are not ordinary human height requirements, they put most basketball players firmly in the top decile as far as height goes. Believe it or not, programmers are not anywhere near being that out of line with human averages (and are not collectively in the top decile of anything), and largely resemble other white collar professions demographically. Its fair to say there is no such thing as innate ability to do math (at least to the level of the average mathematically inclined undergraduate, but I even suspect this applies furthr than that). There are definitely hard cutoffs to whether or not you will ever be allowed to play basketball professionally, regardless of the amount of effort you put in. Its very important that young people interested in computers and coming from all sorts of different environments understand that the topic is not gated biologically, and that they understand that fact as intuitively as professionals in the field. Poor education (or lack of education) is far too often equated with a lack of some kind of innate ability.

dj_mc_merlin 3y ago

Anyone can learn mathematics. Not everybody wants to or would find it useful. I feel as if you're putting a large amount of words into my mouth which I never intended -- all I meant to say was that not learning mathematics to a high level is not that bad. Lots of people have perfectly meaningful lives knowing basically no mathematics beyond middle school level, having forgotten even high school maths.

jack_pp 3y ago

Can't really compare math with basketball. Basketball is enjoyed by millions, it is a sport that is easily accessible with a very low common denominator. In order to truly enjoy math you have to have a particular kind of brain that you are indeed either born with or not. Can't say that I did enjoy math that much because I've had horrible abusive teachers but even so I liked it somewhat because I was better at it than everyone in my class. I would just read the lesson from the text book and it clicked for me instantly, not even needing teachers most of the time. I seriously doubt that literally everyone else just had mental blocks to pick up things as easily as I did. With hard work and private tutors they eventually could catch up indeed but I really doubt they enjoyed it or even needed that knowledge

synecdoche 3y ago

Dyscalculia is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia

vixen99 3y ago
True of course. I've seen estimates of about 10% (your link quotes 11%) of children (i.e., 90% of children don't have it) but the obvious question is on what basis what the diagnosis made? You can guarantee that only a few of those kids have had an MRI scan determining a brain structure indicative of a structural association with dyscalculia in the brain. Easy to jump to conclusions and miss many other possibilities which do not present apparently impassable barriers to learning maths.

zi6gbap22pity 3y ago

For most people, sufficient effort can guarantee a productive carrer programming computers. The absolute maximum capacity (number of people doing a thing / total number of people) of professional basketball players is much lower, and so given the amount of interest in doing said profession you end up with criteria that are very out of line with the median as far as human traits go. The height requirements for instance are not ordinary human height requirements, they put most basketball players firmly in the top decile as far as height goes. Believe it or not, programmers are not anywhere near being that out of line with human averages (and are not collectively in the top decile of anything), and largely resemble other white collar professions demographically. Its fair to say there is no such thing as innate ability to do math (at least to the level of the average mathematically inclined undergraduate, but I even suspect this applies furthr than that). There are definitely hard cutoffs to whether or not you will ever be allowed to play basketball professionally, regardless of the amount of effort you put in. Its very important that young people interested in computers and coming from all sorts of different environments understand that the topic is not gated biologically, and that they understand that fact as intuitively as professionals in the field. Poor education (or lack of education) is far too often equated with a lack of some kind of innate ability.