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You could disable a diverter in 5 seconds with a sledge hammer. Also your linked video is splitting along the length of the rail instead of cutting directly ac

You could disable a diverter in 5 seconds with a sledge hammer. Also your linked video is splitting along the length of the rail instead of cutting directly across it which would take minutes if not seconds.

almost_usual 3y ago
> Also your linked video is splitting along the length of the rail instead of cutting directly across it which would take minutes if not seconds. Watch how long it takes to cut the top of that rail. You must not have ever used an angle grinder before if you think you’re cutting train tracks in seconds. It took me at least a minute to cut through a single leaf spring for a truck if not longer.
- soligern 3y ago
  What’s your point though? You’re picking an arbitrary cutoff time based on what? The intention is still disruption. Thirty minutes is nothing. We don’t classify severity of crimes based on how long they take to accomplish. A murder is a murder whether you shot a person once or spent hours carving them up. I have used an angle grinder and it takes me about 10 seconds to cut through rebar. I would assume a rail is like 25 pieces of rebar put together so my naive assumption would be under five minutes.
  - digdugdirk 3y ago
    There's a big difference in both material and size between rebar and rail track, but that's just an aside. I believe the point being made is the difference in level of intent required and the known (or hoped for) outcome from the action. Grabbing a traffic cone from a nearby construction zone and chucking it in front of an autonomous car at a traffic light is harmless to the health of everyone involved, but is a pain in the rear for many. Meanwhile, it makes a statement, and some chunk of everyone's annoyance gets directed at the autonomous car company. On the other hand, cutting a section of railroad takes concerted effort and a lot of premeditation if the individual hopes to get away with it. More importantly - the person cutting the track hopes/expects to cause death and destruction. The two actions are wildly different, and should be treated as such.
    - slashdev 3y ago
      It’s not necessarily harmless. If that traffic jam blocks an emergency vehicle, people can die.
      - danielheath 3y ago
        There’s been many cases of autonomous cars interfering in active firefighting (rolling slowly between equipment, stopping on hoses, etc).
        nomel 3y ago
        Let’s get that taken care of, and not intentionally make things worse.
        danielheath 3y ago
        Some would view disabling the cars which are interfering with emergency services as “get that taken care of”, and attempts to roll out additional cars without fixing the bug as “intentionally make things worse”.
        nomel 3y ago
        That’s completely fair. Let’s work on that, with the required many times increase in efficiency for public transportation to work in cities made for cars, instead of blocking traffic. One approach for the increase in efficiency is automation. I would like to know what their approach is. As this, and interviews have shown, they have no approach or real goal.
        saulpw 3y ago
        Protest is a political tool. If blocking traffic raises awareness (as it has done here) then I think that counts as working on it. We're not going to get cars off the road by writing letters to our senator or donating a few hundred dollars to a political campaign (we've been trying for decades). Maybe aggravating the general public into realizing the fragility and selfishness of the tech industry's "solution" will get people to reevaluate funding for public transportation. I doubt it, because I've become deeply cynical about human nature, but I also see that the roots of progress often comes from surprising places. Like refusing to ride at the back of the bus. Or dumping tea into a harbor. Or putting a traffic cone on a robot. Keep it simple, don't hurt anyone, make your point. We can argue about the efficacy of their tactics but at the end of the day they're trying something.
  - coryrc 3y ago
    They are very different grades of steel. Track is over twice the yield strength of rebar from your home center and through-hardened. Rebar is mild steel and can't be hardened (maybe case-hardened). It's the difference between cutting water and ice :-).

almost_usual 3y ago

> Also your linked video is splitting along the length of the rail instead of cutting directly across it which would take minutes if not seconds. Watch how long it takes to cut the top of that rail. You must not have ever used an angle grinder before if you think you’re cutting train tracks in seconds. It took me at least a minute to cut through a single leaf spring for a truck if not longer.

soligern 3y ago
What’s your point though? You’re picking an arbitrary cutoff time based on what? The intention is still disruption. Thirty minutes is nothing. We don’t classify severity of crimes based on how long they take to accomplish. A murder is a murder whether you shot a person once or spent hours carving them up. I have used an angle grinder and it takes me about 10 seconds to cut through rebar. I would assume a rail is like 25 pieces of rebar put together so my naive assumption would be under five minutes.
- digdugdirk 3y ago
  There's a big difference in both material and size between rebar and rail track, but that's just an aside. I believe the point being made is the difference in level of intent required and the known (or hoped for) outcome from the action. Grabbing a traffic cone from a nearby construction zone and chucking it in front of an autonomous car at a traffic light is harmless to the health of everyone involved, but is a pain in the rear for many. Meanwhile, it makes a statement, and some chunk of everyone's annoyance gets directed at the autonomous car company. On the other hand, cutting a section of railroad takes concerted effort and a lot of premeditation if the individual hopes to get away with it. More importantly - the person cutting the track hopes/expects to cause death and destruction. The two actions are wildly different, and should be treated as such.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    It’s not necessarily harmless. If that traffic jam blocks an emergency vehicle, people can die.
    - danielheath 3y ago
      There’s been many cases of autonomous cars interfering in active firefighting (rolling slowly between equipment, stopping on hoses, etc).
      - nomel 3y ago
        Let’s get that taken care of, and not intentionally make things worse.
        danielheath 3y ago
        Some would view disabling the cars which are interfering with emergency services as “get that taken care of”, and attempts to roll out additional cars without fixing the bug as “intentionally make things worse”.
        nomel 3y ago
        That’s completely fair. Let’s work on that, with the required many times increase in efficiency for public transportation to work in cities made for cars, instead of blocking traffic. One approach for the increase in efficiency is automation. I would like to know what their approach is. As this, and interviews have shown, they have no approach or real goal.
        saulpw 3y ago
        Protest is a political tool. If blocking traffic raises awareness (as it has done here) then I think that counts as working on it. We're not going to get cars off the road by writing letters to our senator or donating a few hundred dollars to a political campaign (we've been trying for decades). Maybe aggravating the general public into realizing the fragility and selfishness of the tech industry's "solution" will get people to reevaluate funding for public transportation. I doubt it, because I've become deeply cynical about human nature, but I also see that the roots of progress often comes from surprising places. Like refusing to ride at the back of the bus. Or dumping tea into a harbor. Or putting a traffic cone on a robot. Keep it simple, don't hurt anyone, make your point. We can argue about the efficacy of their tactics but at the end of the day they're trying something.
- coryrc 3y ago
  They are very different grades of steel. Track is over twice the yield strength of rebar from your home center and through-hardened. Rebar is mild steel and can't be hardened (maybe case-hardened). It's the difference between cutting water and ice :-).