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One point that the article did land for me was the potential for individual change to be unhelpful. No-phone dinners only work if there isn't any sense of anxie

One point that the article did land for me was the potential for individual change to be unhelpful. No-phone dinners only work if there isn't any sense of anxiety about not having your phone at dinner. That anxiety only goes away if you have an environment that allows you to unplug. Systemic changes like requiring workplaces to allow employees to have "off times" seem necessary to remove some of the baseline anxieties many of us have. If you want to talk about kids specifically, then you'd need some way to alter the anxieties that affect them the most. Anecdotally, it seems like kids (teens especially) end up with lots of FOMO and loneliness. The only structural reforms I've seen suggested as solutions to those were much more drastic than the ones proposed for adults, like preventing teenagers from using social media at all.

generic92034 3y ago
> That anxiety only goes away if you have an environment that allows you to unplug. Systemic changes like requiring workplaces to allow employees to have "off times" seem necessary to remove some of the baseline anxieties many of us have. Are there really so many employers requiring employees to be permanently on-call? I would only consider working in such an environment if they would be paying enough to retire in a few years.
- bornfreddy 3y ago
  This. And do they really expect employees to answer e-mails outside of working hours? To me e-mail is "slow" communication - if you need an answer right now, use a different channel.
- milesvp 3y ago
  I suspect yes. You may not see it in your industry, but I see it a lot in the creative space. Anecdotally, I know there’s an expectation when working for a video production company that you are constantly available to react to clients. And that since much of the work is contracted to people who work odd hours, being a producer is an always on kind of job. As for how common it is? dunno, but there was a very funny (sad?) music video that hints that this is fairly widespread phenomena, for young office workers. Quarter Life Poetry, “Circle Back”. One of the final scenes is the narrator being unable to get away from the grind even at home. https://youtu.be/XXt1-qEjKlE?si=ps3iSQZBVYMweN83 https://youtu.be/XXt1-qEjKlE?si=ps3iSQZBVYMweN83 edit: warning slightly crass
  - generic92034 3y ago
    Software developer here, also doing development support work at times. Still, in the last 20 years it never happened that I got a call from work, despite emergencies being pretty common. As it should be, in countries with strong employee rights.
ipaddr 3y ago
When you don't pickup people stop expecting you to. Set your own expectations.
tomjen3 3y ago
Thats an extreme example to me. I don't think I have ever had a phone dinner, unless we needed to show somebody a picture or take one (and both things are rare). You can put your phone on a shelf and if somebody calls you, you can pick it up, or call them back later.

generic92034 3y ago

> That anxiety only goes away if you have an environment that allows you to unplug. Systemic changes like requiring workplaces to allow employees to have "off times" seem necessary to remove some of the baseline anxieties many of us have. Are there really so many employers requiring employees to be permanently on-call? I would only consider working in such an environment if they would be paying enough to retire in a few years.

bornfreddy 3y ago
This. And do they really expect employees to answer e-mails outside of working hours? To me e-mail is "slow" communication - if you need an answer right now, use a different channel.
milesvp 3y ago
I suspect yes. You may not see it in your industry, but I see it a lot in the creative space. Anecdotally, I know there’s an expectation when working for a video production company that you are constantly available to react to clients. And that since much of the work is contracted to people who work odd hours, being a producer is an always on kind of job. As for how common it is? dunno, but there was a very funny (sad?) music video that hints that this is fairly widespread phenomena, for young office workers. Quarter Life Poetry, “Circle Back”. One of the final scenes is the narrator being unable to get away from the grind even at home. https://youtu.be/XXt1-qEjKlE?si=ps3iSQZBVYMweN83 https://youtu.be/XXt1-qEjKlE?si=ps3iSQZBVYMweN83 edit: warning slightly crass
- generic92034 3y ago
  Software developer here, also doing development support work at times. Still, in the last 20 years it never happened that I got a call from work, despite emergencies being pretty common. As it should be, in countries with strong employee rights.

ipaddr 3y ago

When you don't pickup people stop expecting you to. Set your own expectations.

tomjen3 3y ago

Thats an extreme example to me. I don't think I have ever had a phone dinner, unless we needed to show somebody a picture or take one (and both things are rare). You can put your phone on a shelf and if somebody calls you, you can pick it up, or call them back later.