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The free speech situation in Denmark is worse than the title implies, and not limited to Islam or religion - "The ban is expected to be added to a section of th

The free speech situation in Denmark is worse than the title implies, and not limited to Islam or religion - "The ban is expected to be added to a section of the criminal code that bans public insult of a foreign state, its flag or other symbol." The existing punishment is up to 2 tears jail time, if Breitbart can be trusted - https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/08/25/blasphemy-laws-are-back-denmark-prepares-to-ban-quran-burnings/ https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/08/25/blasphemy-laws-a... And if the Daily Mail is to be believed, the upcoming ban is much broader and vaguer than just Quran burnings: "Justice Minister Peter Hummelgaard told reporters that the government will present a bill that will 'prohibit the inappropriate treatment of objects of significant religious importance to a religious community'" - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445021/Denmark-ban-burning-Koran-string-desecrations-country-sparked-anger-Muslim-nations.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445021/Denmark-ba...

progbits 3y ago
Would that cover Muhammad caricatures?
littlestymaar 3y ago
What your comment is missing is the current political context in Europe: we currently have far right accelerationists that are purposely trying to create outrage among Muslim, both locally and abroad, hoping that it will cause terror attacks against their country, pushing their agenda further. It has nothing to do with free speach, it's just strategia della tensione modernized to the 21th century, and I'm glad politicians are falling for the “but free speech” trap. These people give no shit about freedom of speech, they are playing with fire in order to reach power, and they'll censor all opposition as soon as they reach it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension
- foooorsyth 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    I'd live with cowardice easier than with fascism, as most Europeans who have been there already. Thanks but no thanks.
    - foooorsyth 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 3y ago
        Yikes - your account has been breaking the site guidelines frequently and egregiously. We have to ban accounts that post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37048597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37048597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37046921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37046921 I actually banned your account just now, but changed my mind because when I scrolled through your comment history I also saw quite a few decent comments. But if you don't want to be banned, we need you to make a hard stop on breaking the site guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
    - dang 3y ago
      Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN and please don't use HN for political or ideological battle. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- progbits 3y ago
  I'm sorry but if some political games bring someone to terror attacks that's on them. Creating outrage is despicable but it is nothing compared to actual physical harm. If you can't handle your fairytale book being burned you don't belong in modern society.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Do plays such as the following also count as strategia della tensione, and so should be prohibited, stripped of free speech protections, and their performers jailed for up to 2 years? Avignon Performance Art Festival Features Caucasian Babies “On Skewers” - https://www.thepublica.com/france-avignon-performance-art-festival-features-caucasian-babies-on-skewers/ https://www.thepublica.com/france-avignon-performance-art-fe...
- pseudo0 3y ago
  Provocateurs testing the limits of free speech is nothing new. In the US, we had the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at funerals for soldiers, for example. After a while their gimmick gets stale, they stop getting media attention, and eventually they move onto something else. The far bigger problem is people who think it is appropriate to respond to political speech with terrorism and murder. Hasn't Denmark learned this lesson already, after the Mohammed cartoon controversy?
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    To me the implication is that Denmark's politicians think they can make this all go away, rather than escalate it. It's harder to stand by principles and slowly make headway in addressing people trying to undermine or attack those principles than it is to just give in. It requires being able to enunciate just why those principles matter, even when they're inconvenient. In practice Denmark could launch public campaigns aimed both at explaining what's been going on, and how ultimately it has nothing to do with Denmark.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      > It requires being able to enunciate just why those principles matter, even when they're inconvenient. Nobody serious really think these principles are some kind of holy Grail that should be defended at all cost without any critical judgment. There are many democracies in Europe that restrict some kinds of speeches in one way or another, and even though the US apply them much more strictly than most countries, even there freedom of speech is restricted by laws (try sending death threats and defend yourself with “free speech ” argument).
      - EA-3167 3y ago
        We're a long way from "all costs" here, and a long way from the sort of reasonable restrictions on speech in the furtherance of a crime that's the norm. We're talking about responding to threats of violence from the likes of Al Qaeda (https://www.thelocal.se/20230815/al-qaida-calls-for-revenge-attacks-on-sweden-and-denmark https://www.thelocal.se/20230815/al-qaida-calls-for-revenge-...) with capitulation. Not because the act in question is harming anyone, not because it's common or remotely illegal otherwise. It's just appeasement and it won't be enough.

progbits 3y ago

Would that cover Muhammad caricatures?

littlestymaar 3y ago

What your comment is missing is the current political context in Europe: we currently have far right accelerationists that are purposely trying to create outrage among Muslim, both locally and abroad, hoping that it will cause terror attacks against their country, pushing their agenda further. It has nothing to do with free speach, it's just strategia della tensione modernized to the 21th century, and I'm glad politicians are falling for the “but free speech” trap. These people give no shit about freedom of speech, they are playing with fire in order to reach power, and they'll censor all opposition as soon as they reach it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension

foooorsyth 3y ago
[flagged]
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  I'd live with cowardice easier than with fascism, as most Europeans who have been there already. Thanks but no thanks.
  - foooorsyth 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      Yikes - your account has been breaking the site guidelines frequently and egregiously. We have to ban accounts that post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37255349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37048597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37048597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37047027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37046921 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37046921 I actually banned your account just now, but changed my mind because when I scrolled through your comment history I also saw quite a few decent comments. But if you don't want to be banned, we need you to make a hard stop on breaking the site guidelines. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN and please don't use HN for political or ideological battle. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
progbits 3y ago
I'm sorry but if some political games bring someone to terror attacks that's on them. Creating outrage is despicable but it is nothing compared to actual physical harm. If you can't handle your fairytale book being burned you don't belong in modern society.
SenAnder 3y ago
Do plays such as the following also count as strategia della tensione, and so should be prohibited, stripped of free speech protections, and their performers jailed for up to 2 years? Avignon Performance Art Festival Features Caucasian Babies “On Skewers” - https://www.thepublica.com/france-avignon-performance-art-festival-features-caucasian-babies-on-skewers/ https://www.thepublica.com/france-avignon-performance-art-fe...
pseudo0 3y ago
Provocateurs testing the limits of free speech is nothing new. In the US, we had the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at funerals for soldiers, for example. After a while their gimmick gets stale, they stop getting media attention, and eventually they move onto something else. The far bigger problem is people who think it is appropriate to respond to political speech with terrorism and murder. Hasn't Denmark learned this lesson already, after the Mohammed cartoon controversy?
- EA-3167 3y ago
  To me the implication is that Denmark's politicians think they can make this all go away, rather than escalate it. It's harder to stand by principles and slowly make headway in addressing people trying to undermine or attack those principles than it is to just give in. It requires being able to enunciate just why those principles matter, even when they're inconvenient. In practice Denmark could launch public campaigns aimed both at explaining what's been going on, and how ultimately it has nothing to do with Denmark.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    > It requires being able to enunciate just why those principles matter, even when they're inconvenient. Nobody serious really think these principles are some kind of holy Grail that should be defended at all cost without any critical judgment. There are many democracies in Europe that restrict some kinds of speeches in one way or another, and even though the US apply them much more strictly than most countries, even there freedom of speech is restricted by laws (try sending death threats and defend yourself with “free speech ” argument).
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      We're a long way from "all costs" here, and a long way from the sort of reasonable restrictions on speech in the furtherance of a crime that's the norm. We're talking about responding to threats of violence from the likes of Al Qaeda (https://www.thelocal.se/20230815/al-qaida-calls-for-revenge-attacks-on-sweden-and-denmark https://www.thelocal.se/20230815/al-qaida-calls-for-revenge-...) with capitulation. Not because the act in question is harming anyone, not because it's common or remotely illegal otherwise. It's just appeasement and it won't be enough.