5 ms·

I’d agree with this except that France seems to be getting way better prices per mile, as mentioned in the article. What is France doing differently?

by c54 3y ago

selectodude 3y ago
The NY Times did an expose on infrastructure expenses and found that France simply uses fewer people to build and doesn’t waste time asking for peoples opinions. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  France also has half the population density meaning that there are in fact fewer people to ask and fewer people negatively affected (per unit distance of rail for instance).
  - jeromegv 3y ago
    Paris Subway construction is much cheaper than anywhere in North America and yet they have a very high population density.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - selectodude 3y ago
    Counterpoint: Paris.
  - AshamedCaptain 3y ago
    These metrics are almost meaningless when you use them this generically -- for the same reason Spain is on the lower end of EU countries ranked by population density yet contains some of the most densely populated regions in all of Europe (as mentioned in the article). Moreso than Paris.
- itsibitzi 3y ago
  This tracks. I live very close to several HS2 construction sites in London and frequently see dozens of people just stood around doing nothing.
majjam 3y ago
Id also suggest that France is much less densely populated than the UK - less inhabitants to work around.
- tpmx 3y ago
  The population density of the UK (particularly England) feels staggering to this Swede. Some examples (people/km^2): England: 434 UK: 280 Germany: 239 France: 118 EU: 109 California: 98 Texas: 43 US: 37 Sweden: 26 All land: 16
  - cameronh90 3y ago
    Sweden has about half the population of London. I am probably within walking distance of more people than live in Sweden.
    - tpmx 3y ago
      Sweden gets loads of tourists from e.g. Germany/The Netherlands just looking for peace/quietness. Where do English people go for that? Scotland?
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > Where do UK people go for that? Brits don't want quietness. Instead they go to Germany and drink until they can't stand upright - and then continue to drink until they pass out. Source: was a barkeeper many years ago in Munich. A group of half a dozen Manchester fans drank more in one night than what would last two days otherwise, it's absolutely insane. Australians also tend to drink a lot, but IME they tend to get rowdy when too drunk.
        chris1993 3y ago
        Does Germany not have laws restricting sale of alcohol to drunk people?
sgt101 3y ago
Paris and the surrounding area is densely populated. The rest of France is very rural overall it comes in at 105 per km^2. England, in contrast is almost as densely populated as India (434 per km^2). There are a lot more places to put things in France. As a consequence land in France goes for about €6k per h, while in England it's closer to €30k. So - there's that.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  but barcelona is more densely populated than london, yet it's metro didn't cost as much. I've not seen a good reason to explain _why_ its so expensive.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  Even if you do strict comparisons of only the capital, Parisian construction costs are lower than London's. Consider that they are building the RER E extension for about 3.8B EUR for 28km, and Crossrail was 18.8B GBP (21.9B EUR) for 42km.
StephenAmar 3y ago
It feels that there are fundamental political and cultural issues with English speaking countries (common law?).
- jasec57322 3y ago
  If you want to begin to understand this I recommend you read two books, in the following order: The Abolition of Britain - Peter Hitchens The Abolition of Liberty - Peter Hitchens Synopsis: Two worldwide wars led the flower of Britain to be torn to shreds by shrapnel into rat food. The millions of broken homes, (furthered by the subsequent exodus of native Brits which continues somewhat to this day), and society which has never really recovered led to the spivs taking charge. Hence the phrase 'mediocre mafia'. Things are changing for the better, and will continue to do so. But right now we are seeing the light of the past fade and the lunacy (PR1D3overPrinciples) of a nation only just coming to terms with this loss from 1914 onwards - hence 'special relationship' sucking up to 'USA'/'YU-ES-AY'.
  - oska 3y ago
    > Things are changing for the better, and will continue to do so. I'm curious as to what gives you cause for optimism. As an interested observer from Australia, it seems to me that the UK has a very bleak immediate to medium term future. But I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong or what I'm missing.

I’d agree with this except that France seems to be getting way better prices per mile, as mentioned in the article. What is France doing differently?

by c54 3y ago

I’d agree with this except that France seems to be getting way better prices per mile, as mentioned in the article. What is France doing differently?

selectodude 3y ago

The NY Times did an expose on infrastructure expenses and found that France simply uses fewer people to build and doesn’t waste time asking for peoples opinions. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

kwhitefoot 3y ago
France also has half the population density meaning that there are in fact fewer people to ask and fewer people negatively affected (per unit distance of rail for instance).
- jeromegv 3y ago
  Paris Subway construction is much cheaper than anywhere in North America and yet they have a very high population density.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- selectodude 3y ago
  Counterpoint: Paris.
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  These metrics are almost meaningless when you use them this generically -- for the same reason Spain is on the lower end of EU countries ranked by population density yet contains some of the most densely populated regions in all of Europe (as mentioned in the article). Moreso than Paris.
itsibitzi 3y ago
This tracks. I live very close to several HS2 construction sites in London and frequently see dozens of people just stood around doing nothing.

majjam 3y ago

Id also suggest that France is much less densely populated than the UK - less inhabitants to work around.

tpmx 3y ago
The population density of the UK (particularly England) feels staggering to this Swede. Some examples (people/km^2): England: 434 UK: 280 Germany: 239 France: 118 EU: 109 California: 98 Texas: 43 US: 37 Sweden: 26 All land: 16
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Sweden has about half the population of London. I am probably within walking distance of more people than live in Sweden.
  - tpmx 3y ago
    Sweden gets loads of tourists from e.g. Germany/The Netherlands just looking for peace/quietness. Where do English people go for that? Scotland?
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > Where do UK people go for that? Brits don't want quietness. Instead they go to Germany and drink until they can't stand upright - and then continue to drink until they pass out. Source: was a barkeeper many years ago in Munich. A group of half a dozen Manchester fans drank more in one night than what would last two days otherwise, it's absolutely insane. Australians also tend to drink a lot, but IME they tend to get rowdy when too drunk.
      - chris1993 3y ago
        Does Germany not have laws restricting sale of alcohol to drunk people?

sgt101 3y ago

Paris and the surrounding area is densely populated. The rest of France is very rural overall it comes in at 105 per km^2. England, in contrast is almost as densely populated as India (434 per km^2). There are a lot more places to put things in France. As a consequence land in France goes for about €6k per h, while in England it's closer to €30k. So - there's that.

KaiserPro 3y ago
but barcelona is more densely populated than london, yet it's metro didn't cost as much. I've not seen a good reason to explain _why_ its so expensive.
bobthepanda 3y ago
Even if you do strict comparisons of only the capital, Parisian construction costs are lower than London's. Consider that they are building the RER E extension for about 3.8B EUR for 28km, and Crossrail was 18.8B GBP (21.9B EUR) for 42km.

StephenAmar 3y ago

It feels that there are fundamental political and cultural issues with English speaking countries (common law?).

jasec57322 3y ago
If you want to begin to understand this I recommend you read two books, in the following order: The Abolition of Britain - Peter Hitchens The Abolition of Liberty - Peter Hitchens Synopsis: Two worldwide wars led the flower of Britain to be torn to shreds by shrapnel into rat food. The millions of broken homes, (furthered by the subsequent exodus of native Brits which continues somewhat to this day), and society which has never really recovered led to the spivs taking charge. Hence the phrase 'mediocre mafia'. Things are changing for the better, and will continue to do so. But right now we are seeing the light of the past fade and the lunacy (PR1D3overPrinciples) of a nation only just coming to terms with this loss from 1914 onwards - hence 'special relationship' sucking up to 'USA'/'YU-ES-AY'.
- oska 3y ago
  > Things are changing for the better, and will continue to do so. I'm curious as to what gives you cause for optimism. As an interested observer from Australia, it seems to me that the UK has a very bleak immediate to medium term future. But I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong or what I'm missing.