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I find it funny how antagonistic the West is against BRICS; the West has ignored the Global South for far too long, and worse, depletes those countries of resou

I find it funny how antagonistic the West is against BRICS; the West has ignored the Global South for far too long, and worse, depletes those countries of resources and getting rich off of them. Countries have now seen that they can't rely on the US not to meddle. Look at what America did to their ally South Africa, the ambassador accused us without proof and our currency dropped like a rock. The US also had its army in Syria protect private military contractors who protect US companies extracting oil from Syria. They're hypocrites as China is their biggest trading partner. France produces 70% of its electricity from nuclear and gets the majority of its fuel from Africa. And West Africa is just as poor as it left them. India and China having border skirmishes don't make them sworn enemies of each other. In fact, China is one of India's largest trading partners. The US and Canada even has border disputes; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixon_Entrance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixon_Entrance. Also, it's not a military bloc. And you can understand why the Global South countries would want this alliance to grow their economies and be less reliant on Western imposition. On average, African countries loans cost 4% more than America and 8% more than Europe, they're being taken advantage of and their natural resources depleted. And now those countries want to come together to build up their economies through the New Development Bank which aims to increase local currency borrowing to 30%. The BRICS countries constitute more than 50% of the population and 26% of the world's nominal GDP but have only 14% of the IMF's voting rights. They aren't looking to unsettle the dollar, but be less reliant on it.

petre 3y ago
Good luck teaming up with Russia and borrowing from China. Montenegro has made a similar venture. It didn't go all that well, now they are doing it again. What I don't understand is South Africa relying on Ukrainian grain and teaming up with Russia while there is widespread violence against farmers.
- vasac 3y ago
  The Atlantic doesn't think so: The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/ch...
  - petre 3y ago
    Maybe it's not a trap but it's certainly a way to exert influence. https://cepa.org/comprehensive-reports/chinese-influence-in-montenegro/ https://cepa.org/comprehensive-reports/chinese-influence-in-...
scotty79 3y ago
Grouping these countries together was just a fantasy of some western investors. "It was introduced in the 2001 publication, Building Better Global Economic BRICs by then-chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, Jim O'Neill."
cheese_van 3y ago
>They aren't looking to unsettle the dollar, but be less reliant on it. The prominence of the dollar, aside from US productivity and scale, and the reasons why it is the most exchanged currency in the world, is due to its stability, or in other words, how well it holds value over time. That's pretty much it. However, "that's pretty much it" rather understates the difficulty of achieving the same thing in currencies of countries that lack fiscal transparency, political stability and have higher levels of corruption and volatility in banking sectors. It's not a secret formula. If the BRICs countries succeed in the political reforms needed to establish currency confidence in their alternate reserve to which investments can be pegged, the world might be a better place. So here's hoping.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  [flagged]
reducesuffering 3y ago
> France produces 70% of its electricity from nuclear and gets the majority of its fuel from Africa Over 82% of French uranium production is outside of Africa, in countries like Kazakhstan, Canada, Australia, and Russia. Gell Mann amnesia pretty much says that if you can't get basic facts right, then you should probably question the rest of your "analysis" too. > African countries loans cost 4% more than America and 8% more than Europe But also, this is too good. Basic financial literacy tells you that the risk of a loan is included in its interest rate to pay for the chance of default. How much of the African sahel is currently under active coups and civil wars in the past couple years?
- woah 3y ago
  But have you considered that America Bad?
- realusername 3y ago
  And also France was overpaying the global market uranium rate in Niger as a good gesture for keeping good political relations. They can sell it cheaper to somebody else if they aren't happy, the list of potential clients isn't that big though.
  - ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
    France owns those mines in niger (Orano I think). They are not "good political relations" The uranium mined from France itself is of low quality and uranium from AU/CA has too high shipping charges. Also 30% of uranium to France came from Niger in 2022. For EU as a whole (I think) it was closer to 40%
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      No, 2022 was 20% from Niger [0], and EU is 25% [1]. I'll also correct my stats for the latest 2022 year, in which 64% was outside Africa. It fluctuates moderately, like Namibia greatly increasing last year. [0] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2023/08/04/how-dependent-is-france-on-niger-s-uranium_6080772_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2023/08/04/h... [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-sees-no-immediate-risks-if-niger-cuts-uranium-supplies-2023-08-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-sees-no-immediate-ri... GP is right that France is playing plenty to keep things smooth with Niger. Niger's entire export economy is based purely on uranium. Meanwhile, to France, it's just the 7th largest global supplier of one commodity. What we're seeing is the foolish hubris of certain people in Niger trying to crank out more profits (the only ones they have), failing to realize that there are six other bigger suppliers in this market. The prices get set fairly, they just don't like it because they have nothing else to further their standard of living, until they actually build a functioning economy. They're antagonizing the hand that feeds them, and if you don't do mutual beneficial trade, France will seek stable supplies elsewhere, while Niger suffers the opposite of what they unfairly wanted.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
twelve40 3y ago
It's a stupid and tired myth that every successful association must be very tight, military not just economic, with a special new currency, zero differences of opinion between the members, etc. This is a strawman that people like to kick around and ridicule anything less than that, but what is currently happening in reality is much more nuanced and interesting.

petre 3y ago

Good luck teaming up with Russia and borrowing from China. Montenegro has made a similar venture. It didn't go all that well, now they are doing it again. What I don't understand is South Africa relying on Ukrainian grain and teaming up with Russia while there is widespread violence against farmers.

vasac 3y ago
The Atlantic doesn't think so: The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/ch...
- petre 3y ago
  Maybe it's not a trap but it's certainly a way to exert influence. https://cepa.org/comprehensive-reports/chinese-influence-in-montenegro/ https://cepa.org/comprehensive-reports/chinese-influence-in-...

scotty79 3y ago

Grouping these countries together was just a fantasy of some western investors. "It was introduced in the 2001 publication, Building Better Global Economic BRICs by then-chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, Jim O'Neill."

cheese_van 3y ago

>They aren't looking to unsettle the dollar, but be less reliant on it. The prominence of the dollar, aside from US productivity and scale, and the reasons why it is the most exchanged currency in the world, is due to its stability, or in other words, how well it holds value over time. That's pretty much it. However, "that's pretty much it" rather understates the difficulty of achieving the same thing in currencies of countries that lack fiscal transparency, political stability and have higher levels of corruption and volatility in banking sectors. It's not a secret formula. If the BRICs countries succeed in the political reforms needed to establish currency confidence in their alternate reserve to which investments can be pegged, the world might be a better place. So here's hoping.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChatGTP 3y ago
[flagged]

reducesuffering 3y ago

> France produces 70% of its electricity from nuclear and gets the majority of its fuel from Africa Over 82% of French uranium production is outside of Africa, in countries like Kazakhstan, Canada, Australia, and Russia. Gell Mann amnesia pretty much says that if you can't get basic facts right, then you should probably question the rest of your "analysis" too. > African countries loans cost 4% more than America and 8% more than Europe But also, this is too good. Basic financial literacy tells you that the risk of a loan is included in its interest rate to pay for the chance of default. How much of the African sahel is currently under active coups and civil wars in the past couple years?

woah 3y ago
But have you considered that America Bad?
realusername 3y ago
And also France was overpaying the global market uranium rate in Niger as a good gesture for keeping good political relations. They can sell it cheaper to somebody else if they aren't happy, the list of potential clients isn't that big though.
- ganeshkrishnan 3y ago
  France owns those mines in niger (Orano I think). They are not "good political relations" The uranium mined from France itself is of low quality and uranium from AU/CA has too high shipping charges. Also 30% of uranium to France came from Niger in 2022. For EU as a whole (I think) it was closer to 40%
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    No, 2022 was 20% from Niger [0], and EU is 25% [1]. I'll also correct my stats for the latest 2022 year, in which 64% was outside Africa. It fluctuates moderately, like Namibia greatly increasing last year. [0] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2023/08/04/how-dependent-is-france-on-niger-s-uranium_6080772_8.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2023/08/04/h... [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-sees-no-immediate-risks-if-niger-cuts-uranium-supplies-2023-08-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-sees-no-immediate-ri... GP is right that France is playing plenty to keep things smooth with Niger. Niger's entire export economy is based purely on uranium. Meanwhile, to France, it's just the 7th largest global supplier of one commodity. What we're seeing is the foolish hubris of certain people in Niger trying to crank out more profits (the only ones they have), failing to realize that there are six other bigger suppliers in this market. The prices get set fairly, they just don't like it because they have nothing else to further their standard of living, until they actually build a functioning economy. They're antagonizing the hand that feeds them, and if you don't do mutual beneficial trade, France will seek stable supplies elsewhere, while Niger suffers the opposite of what they unfairly wanted.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

twelve40 3y ago

It's a stupid and tired myth that every successful association must be very tight, military not just economic, with a special new currency, zero differences of opinion between the members, etc. This is a strawman that people like to kick around and ridicule anything less than that, but what is currently happening in reality is much more nuanced and interesting.