4 ms·

Driverless cars will eventually be safer and more efficient than human drivers. They'll respond faster in emergencies. They won't be drunk or stoned. They won't

Driverless cars will eventually be safer and more efficient than human drivers. They'll respond faster in emergencies. They won't be drunk or stoned. They won't exceed speed limits. They won't rev or honk angrily. But to reach that point, we've got to accept a learning/development process that will involve some risks and some annoyance.

blurker 3y ago
> They won't exceed speed limits. Uhh, about that... > Tesla allows self-driving cars to break speed limit, again - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/16/tesla-allows-self-driving-cars-to-break-speed-limit-again https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/16/tesla-all...
- cozzyd 3y ago
  I feel like I should be able to file a class action lawsuit against Tesla if the cars are programmed to speed.
- fastball 3y ago
  Because going the speed limit is unsafe in certain scenarios, because other human drivers are expecting people to exceed the limit like they do. It's the same with Tesla wanting to allow rolling stops at stop signs – not the letter of the law, but it's what humans expect. In many instances you are more likely to cause a minor accident (being rear-ended) by coming to a complete stop at a stop sign than the risk of causing and accident by rolling through an intersection that clearly has nobody else in it. Won't be a problem once most cars on the road are driverless.
petee 3y ago
No we don't have to accept that. Experimentation belongs in a laboratory, and all these companies can afford to build private, controlled environments, they just don't want to spend the money. The time to find out your car does not stop for emergency vehicles, is not during an emergency. Yet here we are
- grecy 3y ago
  > Experimentation belongs in a laboratory How about all those new drivers hitting the road for the very first time? Are you suggesting we should banish them from public roads until they've got a few hundred hours under their belt? How are they going to get freeway practice?
somewhereoutth 3y ago
> Jam tomorrow However it is very likely that self driving is in some sense AGI complete - in other words to get to the goal may require something just as generally intelligent as humans, not least as driving in a city is a social interaction problem as much as a routing problem.
- kylebyproxy 3y ago
  I don't understand why this part isn't talked about more. Seems like an elephant in the room to me. Have most people just not encountered confusing road conditions? A couple weeks ago, I was in West Virginia bobbing up and down hills around hairpin turns on loose gravel. The whole time, I was thinking to myself "The first autonomous vehicle that attempts this route is going straight into the ravine." One time evacuating from a hurricane, the route I found required me to drive through an open field. How well does LIDAR cope with tall grass? Another time, I'm headed north on I-95 and there's a several car pileup. Police divert all traffic off the nearest exit and close the highway with a few road flares. I'd wager anything an AV would blow right past the flares and wreak havoc on the scene of the accident. Until AI can cope with completely novel scenarios it was never trained for, it's going to be prone to catastrophic failure. Personally, I don't expect to see it in our lifetimes.
  - NegativeK 3y ago
    > bobbing up and down hills around hairpin turns on loose gravel They slow down. Tesla's dumbest form of automation will slow down more than a human when encountering a turn. > How well does LIDAR cope with tall grass? It stops and demands help. While car automation leans on GPS/nav, it won't blindly follow it -- similar to (almost all) humans. I wouldn't want to risk anything near a vehicle accident on the road, though. But the situation is not _as_ bad as you might think.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
7jjjjjjj 3y ago
[dead]
HarryHirsch 3y ago
Driverless cars will eventually be safer and more efficient than human drivers That'll happen only when we have solved the general intelligence problem. Driving on roads is a cooperative process, it requires a theory of mind, and many people are sick of making allowances for experimental technology that is inherently incapable of performing as intended. It's the equivalence of goldmaking alchemists. Meanwhile there's us motorcyclists - I trust robotaxis to even estimate distances as much as I trust drunk drivers or teenagers on their second driving lessons. Banish that shit to test tracks.
coffeefirst 3y ago
How do we know that? Don't get me wrong, this is an impressive feat—that sometimes crashes into firetrucks. Until they stop crashing into firetrucks, which are rather large, bright red, and pretty hard to crash into, the idea that they are going to be better than most drivers is speculation.

blurker 3y ago

> They won't exceed speed limits. Uhh, about that... > Tesla allows self-driving cars to break speed limit, again - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/16/tesla-allows-self-driving-cars-to-break-speed-limit-again https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/16/tesla-all...

cozzyd 3y ago
I feel like I should be able to file a class action lawsuit against Tesla if the cars are programmed to speed.
fastball 3y ago
Because going the speed limit is unsafe in certain scenarios, because other human drivers are expecting people to exceed the limit like they do. It's the same with Tesla wanting to allow rolling stops at stop signs – not the letter of the law, but it's what humans expect. In many instances you are more likely to cause a minor accident (being rear-ended) by coming to a complete stop at a stop sign than the risk of causing and accident by rolling through an intersection that clearly has nobody else in it. Won't be a problem once most cars on the road are driverless.

petee 3y ago

No we don't have to accept that. Experimentation belongs in a laboratory, and all these companies can afford to build private, controlled environments, they just don't want to spend the money. The time to find out your car does not stop for emergency vehicles, is not during an emergency. Yet here we are

grecy 3y ago
> Experimentation belongs in a laboratory How about all those new drivers hitting the road for the very first time? Are you suggesting we should banish them from public roads until they've got a few hundred hours under their belt? How are they going to get freeway practice?

somewhereoutth 3y ago

> Jam tomorrow However it is very likely that self driving is in some sense AGI complete - in other words to get to the goal may require something just as generally intelligent as humans, not least as driving in a city is a social interaction problem as much as a routing problem.

kylebyproxy 3y ago
I don't understand why this part isn't talked about more. Seems like an elephant in the room to me. Have most people just not encountered confusing road conditions? A couple weeks ago, I was in West Virginia bobbing up and down hills around hairpin turns on loose gravel. The whole time, I was thinking to myself "The first autonomous vehicle that attempts this route is going straight into the ravine." One time evacuating from a hurricane, the route I found required me to drive through an open field. How well does LIDAR cope with tall grass? Another time, I'm headed north on I-95 and there's a several car pileup. Police divert all traffic off the nearest exit and close the highway with a few road flares. I'd wager anything an AV would blow right past the flares and wreak havoc on the scene of the accident. Until AI can cope with completely novel scenarios it was never trained for, it's going to be prone to catastrophic failure. Personally, I don't expect to see it in our lifetimes.
- NegativeK 3y ago
  > bobbing up and down hills around hairpin turns on loose gravel They slow down. Tesla's dumbest form of automation will slow down more than a human when encountering a turn. > How well does LIDAR cope with tall grass? It stops and demands help. While car automation leans on GPS/nav, it won't blindly follow it -- similar to (almost all) humans. I wouldn't want to risk anything near a vehicle accident on the road, though. But the situation is not _as_ bad as you might think.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

7jjjjjjj 3y ago

[dead]

HarryHirsch 3y ago

Driverless cars will eventually be safer and more efficient than human drivers That'll happen only when we have solved the general intelligence problem. Driving on roads is a cooperative process, it requires a theory of mind, and many people are sick of making allowances for experimental technology that is inherently incapable of performing as intended. It's the equivalence of goldmaking alchemists. Meanwhile there's us motorcyclists - I trust robotaxis to even estimate distances as much as I trust drunk drivers or teenagers on their second driving lessons. Banish that shit to test tracks.

coffeefirst 3y ago

How do we know that? Don't get me wrong, this is an impressive feat—that sometimes crashes into firetrucks. Until they stop crashing into firetrucks, which are rather large, bright red, and pretty hard to crash into, the idea that they are going to be better than most drivers is speculation.