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It's because ultimately it doesn't matter. There could be any cause for the crowd to form in the first place, that crowd dynamic would be similar whatever the

It's because ultimately it doesn't matter. There could be any cause for the crowd to form in the first place, that crowd dynamic would be similar whatever the motivation of the crowd is. For instance if you're in the core zone that would get crushed if/when the crowd's movement was stopped, blaming avid capitalism doesn't help you in any way, you would have been safe if under the same incentives the organisators of the event had proper crowd management in first place. Fatalities at the Hajj weren't reduced by making people less religious, they improved their logistics instead [edited]

levzettelin 3y ago
I find it easy enough to imagine a type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions under any circumstances. Say a group of 10000 physicist assembling to discuss quantum physics. But, sure, if you can't change the type of people assembling, improving logistics is your only option.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  The same would happen if they were all tightly packed in a small venue, and at the end of the conference there was only one exit down a narrow path. For the record, a similar issue happened in Korea not so long ago at a Halloween festival where people weren't even motivated to go a specific way, it was just too overcrowded: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63443044 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63443044
  - levzettelin 3y ago
    Doesn't really shout "scientists", this article LOL.
- adwn 3y ago
  > I find it easy enough to imagine a type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions under any circumstances. None of the people in the back intend to cause injuries to the people in the front of the crowd, nor do they even know what's happening. The cause of crowd crushes is not the "type of people assembling", as evidenced by the wide variety of crowds that experienced crushes.
- brazzy 3y ago
  > type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions Please, please inform yourself. You are holding some vile misconceptions.
mcpackieh 3y ago
One you're already in the crush zone nothing is going to help you, not even blaming the event organizers for lacking proper crowd management in the first place. Once you're in that situation, your life remains imperiled no matter who or what you point your finger at. The solution is to avoid getting into that situation in the first place, and until public places are fixed that means not being where a crowd is. Not going to the event in the first place is the best solution, but you can also leave early (my preference) or leave late, or leave through a lesser known exit. Counting on organizers to fix it with policy is a bad idea, the physical structure of public places needs to be changed to prevent it. Policy-based solutions are great as one layer of defense, but if that's your only defense in a structure that is otherwise prone to crowd crush, you're better of not being there in the first place.

levzettelin 3y ago

I find it easy enough to imagine a type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions under any circumstances. Say a group of 10000 physicist assembling to discuss quantum physics. But, sure, if you can't change the type of people assembling, improving logistics is your only option.

makeitdouble 3y ago
The same would happen if they were all tightly packed in a small venue, and at the end of the conference there was only one exit down a narrow path. For the record, a similar issue happened in Korea not so long ago at a Halloween festival where people weren't even motivated to go a specific way, it was just too overcrowded: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63443044 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63443044
- levzettelin 3y ago
  Doesn't really shout "scientists", this article LOL.
adwn 3y ago
> I find it easy enough to imagine a type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions under any circumstances. None of the people in the back intend to cause injuries to the people in the front of the crowd, nor do they even know what's happening. The cause of crowd crushes is not the "type of people assembling", as evidenced by the wide variety of crowds that experienced crushes.
brazzy 3y ago
> type of people that would not engage in such barbaric actions Please, please inform yourself. You are holding some vile misconceptions.

mcpackieh 3y ago

One you're already in the crush zone nothing is going to help you, not even blaming the event organizers for lacking proper crowd management in the first place. Once you're in that situation, your life remains imperiled no matter who or what you point your finger at. The solution is to avoid getting into that situation in the first place, and until public places are fixed that means not being where a crowd is. Not going to the event in the first place is the best solution, but you can also leave early (my preference) or leave late, or leave through a lesser known exit. Counting on organizers to fix it with policy is a bad idea, the physical structure of public places needs to be changed to prevent it. Policy-based solutions are great as one layer of defense, but if that's your only defense in a structure that is otherwise prone to crowd crush, you're better of not being there in the first place.