5 ms·

I kinda love the idea of 1% interchange and someone shaking up the market. I really hate the idea of using my phone patterns as the new FICO. It just brings us

I kinda love the idea of 1% interchange and someone shaking up the market. I really hate the idea of using my phone patterns as the new FICO. It just brings us down a 1984-style rabbit hole and a lot of abuse / lack of access to credit based on bunk patterns. It’s possible this actually expands credit markets to formerly unbanked folks but the downsides seem higher to me because of the surveillance. Cut down on fraud, yes. Evaluate credit-worthiness from my phone metadata? No thanks - I’d advocate banning that wholesale.

scarface_74 3y ago
How large is the overlap between the unbanked and people buying iPhones?
- r00fus 3y ago
  Used iPhones are a thing
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    I don't think the majority of unbanked masses could even afford that.
    - rz2k 3y ago
      A used iPhone 8 from 2017 is less than $100. This model runs iOS 16, and is pretty likely to receive security updates even after iOS 17 is released this September. It should remain secure enough for most unbanked transactions. The iPhone XR (2018) and second generation SE (2020) are also pretty cheap on the secondary market, and will run iOS 17.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        That's cool, a Tracphone is $15 and comes with free minutes. I can get a used one for free without service, and spend my $100 on feeding myself and family for another week. Has anyone on this website ever actually been poor before, or are you all pretending based on the movies you watched? This entire thread is bumming me out big-time.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Well, even many of the “poor” are spending $35 a month with one of the MVNOs and getting a cellphone bundled with it.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      You can get an iPhone SE2 from MetroPCS (now owned by T-mobile) free with service without a contract https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple The SE3 is definitely no slouch when it comes to performance and will probablg get updates for years. Apple released a security update for the 2013 iPhones 5s earlier this year.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        News Flash: if you are signing up for service on a new phone, you are most-likely not part of the unbanked masses.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        News Flash: even 94% of the homeless have a smart phone. People are unbanked for all sorts of reasons, it doesn’t mean they can’t afford $35 a month for a phone - 2 hours worth of work even at McDonald’s these days. The phones are subsidized and are $0 with service
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Do you think the majority of people worldwide have a smart phone? It's not a trick question.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Well since Apple Pay Later is only available in the US I fail to see your point.
- rz2k 3y ago
  In the US it is probably at least 50% of the unbanked population, the market share of iPhones to the aggregate population. Many people with limited resources rely on a smartphone for all of their internet access, and people in minimum wage, and what appear to be under the table types of service jobs don't seem to be carrying anything other than an iPhone. Considering that Apple's phones receive software updates for at least five years, it's conceivable that many are being used by a second or even third owner.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    The US is an outlier, though. You could very well correlate the iPhone market share with the overall higher cost-of-living. In pretty much every other country worldwide (particularly the less-banked ones) that equation looks a lot different.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      That’s true. In the US even the MVNOs that target the lower income population will bundle a “free” locked iPhone with service. https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.boostmobile.com/shop/iphone-12.html https://www.boostmobile.com/shop/iphone-12.html
calciphus 3y ago
I'm not sure the requirement of "can purchase Apple products at retail" quite aligns with "expanding credit to the unbanked". Premium luxury goods as a barrier to entry (especially when one is ineligible for carrier subsidies because they are unbanked) is a pretty high bar to clear.
houseatrielah 3y ago
David Marcus (former PayPal,FB) that China skipped the whole credit card step and leapt from a cash economy to mobile; he said they pay less that 20 bips. https://www.bankless.com/early-access-why-facebooks-stablecoin-failed-with-david-marcus https://www.bankless.com/early-access-why-facebooks-stableco...
- arrosenberg 3y ago
  Has nothing to do with China or cards and everything to do with American laws and culture. Europe also has 0.2-0.3% interchange rates on credit, they don't have consumer rewards programs. The high interchange rates pay for the rewards programs (and generate a ton of profit).
devmor 3y ago
People who can buy iPhones by and large have access to banks - even to get them on a payment plan you have to pass a credit check.

scarface_74 3y ago

How large is the overlap between the unbanked and people buying iPhones?

r00fus 3y ago
Used iPhones are a thing
- smoldesu 3y ago
  I don't think the majority of unbanked masses could even afford that.
  - rz2k 3y ago
    A used iPhone 8 from 2017 is less than $100. This model runs iOS 16, and is pretty likely to receive security updates even after iOS 17 is released this September. It should remain secure enough for most unbanked transactions. The iPhone XR (2018) and second generation SE (2020) are also pretty cheap on the secondary market, and will run iOS 17.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      That's cool, a Tracphone is $15 and comes with free minutes. I can get a used one for free without service, and spend my $100 on feeding myself and family for another week. Has anyone on this website ever actually been poor before, or are you all pretending based on the movies you watched? This entire thread is bumming me out big-time.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        Well, even many of the “poor” are spending $35 a month with one of the MVNOs and getting a cellphone bundled with it.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    You can get an iPhone SE2 from MetroPCS (now owned by T-mobile) free with service without a contract https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple The SE3 is definitely no slouch when it comes to performance and will probablg get updates for years. Apple released a security update for the 2013 iPhones 5s earlier this year.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      News Flash: if you are signing up for service on a new phone, you are most-likely not part of the unbanked masses.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        News Flash: even 94% of the homeless have a smart phone. People are unbanked for all sorts of reasons, it doesn’t mean they can’t afford $35 a month for a phone - 2 hours worth of work even at McDonald’s these days. The phones are subsidized and are $0 with service
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Do you think the majority of people worldwide have a smart phone? It's not a trick question.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        Well since Apple Pay Later is only available in the US I fail to see your point.
rz2k 3y ago
In the US it is probably at least 50% of the unbanked population, the market share of iPhones to the aggregate population. Many people with limited resources rely on a smartphone for all of their internet access, and people in minimum wage, and what appear to be under the table types of service jobs don't seem to be carrying anything other than an iPhone. Considering that Apple's phones receive software updates for at least five years, it's conceivable that many are being used by a second or even third owner.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  The US is an outlier, though. You could very well correlate the iPhone market share with the overall higher cost-of-living. In pretty much every other country worldwide (particularly the less-banked ones) that equation looks a lot different.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    That’s true. In the US even the MVNOs that target the lower income population will bundle a “free” locked iPhone with service. https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.metrobyt-mobile.com/cell-phones/brand/apple https://www.boostmobile.com/shop/iphone-12.html https://www.boostmobile.com/shop/iphone-12.html

calciphus 3y ago

I'm not sure the requirement of "can purchase Apple products at retail" quite aligns with "expanding credit to the unbanked". Premium luxury goods as a barrier to entry (especially when one is ineligible for carrier subsidies because they are unbanked) is a pretty high bar to clear.

houseatrielah 3y ago

David Marcus (former PayPal,FB) that China skipped the whole credit card step and leapt from a cash economy to mobile; he said they pay less that 20 bips. https://www.bankless.com/early-access-why-facebooks-stablecoin-failed-with-david-marcus https://www.bankless.com/early-access-why-facebooks-stableco...

arrosenberg 3y ago
Has nothing to do with China or cards and everything to do with American laws and culture. Europe also has 0.2-0.3% interchange rates on credit, they don't have consumer rewards programs. The high interchange rates pay for the rewards programs (and generate a ton of profit).

devmor 3y ago

People who can buy iPhones by and large have access to banks - even to get them on a payment plan you have to pass a credit check.