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The best counter against propaganda and disinformation is dilution. Trying to get a monopoly on "truth" is a short path to the worst kind of propaganda, the si

The best counter against propaganda and disinformation is dilution. Trying to get a monopoly on "truth" is a short path to the worst kind of propaganda, the single sided one. I don't mind the flat-earthers and the climate-skeptics and the crazy UFO tribe as long as I can hear different voices.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Zigurd 3y ago
The problem is the disinformation narratives tend to clump together the way that mythologies form into cults and religions by combining stories about external threats. You can see this in present-day disinformation because conspiracy theory adherence is rarely about one thing. it's always a package deal.
- mistermann 3y ago
  Careful though: we don't have any way of knowing with remotely any accuracy what the conspiracy theory world is composed of, or what conspiracy theorists believe, we only can go on what others (often very persuasively) say about them. Believe what you'd like, but at least have some realization of what's really going on.
  - krapp 3y ago
    Conspiracy theorists have entire ecosystems of boards and forums where they themselves discuss what they believe, and they often spread their beliefs openly. The premise that "the conspiracy theory world" is a black box is ridiculous.
    - mistermann 3y ago
      > Conspiracy theorists have entire ecosystems of boards and forums where they themselves discuss what they believe, and they often spread their beliefs openly. Some of them do. > The premise that "the conspiracy theory world" is a black box is ridiculous. It is indeed - did you notice that it wasn't me who said that? You are bot criticizing conspiracy theorists, you are criticizing your internal representation of them, that's why you make unforced errors: what you see is not the thing itself. It is painful having to explain this to people over and over, and having them laugh as if it's some sort of a pseudo-scientific conspiracy theory - it is literally a scientific fact.
  - cocacola1 3y ago
    > Believe what you'd like, but at least have some realization of what's really going on. What's really going on, though?
    - mistermann 3y ago
      Depends how technical you want to get with your terms, like "really" and "is". :)
      - cocacola1 3y ago
        I get the Bill Clinton reference, but to be fair, these were your terms.
- hotdogscout 3y ago
  How do you deal with how so much of our current values were once persecuted as misinformation?
- stephc_int13 3y ago
  It is (almost) always a package deal from all sides, because humans feel better when they are parts of a tribe. I agree that this is not a beneficial trait at this stage of our evolution, but it once was. Censorship can only reinforce the alienation and thus the internal cohesion of any tribe. Let them live and thrive and more importantly, let them counter each other.
goalieca 3y ago
Agreed. The worst kind of government is one that tries to control what people think and say. Approved narratives and facts are the way of dictatorships.
tzs 3y ago
> I don't mind the flat-earthers and the climate-skeptics and the crazy UFO tribe as long as I can hear different voices. Will you still not mind when all the different voices are saying things just as false as those? The fundamental problem is that generating false information is easier, faster, and cheaper than generating true information. It used to be expensive to publish information once you generated it and the channels that could spread it both widely and quickly were particularly expensive and there weren't many of them. The more affordable channels were much slower. It also used to be that long distance person to person communication was expensive. Most social communication was with people in your area. Both of these did a good job of countering the ease, speed, and cost advantage generating misinformation has over generating accurate information. Now neither of them holds. False information can easily completely swamp true information for people who are getting most of their information from their social media feeds, and that is a lot of people.
- insickness 3y ago
  > generating false information is easier, faster, and cheaper than generating true information I'd prefer having pockets of false information than a government decreeing what can and can't be said, as happened with covid. Once you have an official version of truth, those in power will manipulate it to their will.
- npmccallum 3y ago
  The problem is not that you are wrong. You are, in fact, correct. The problem is that there are only two possible solutions: 1. The human race adapts to disinformation. This probably takes a generation or two. 2. We hand over the greatest instrument for tyranny to either the government or large corporations. The first solution isn’t fun. But it is the only reasonable choice.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Zigurd 3y ago

The problem is the disinformation narratives tend to clump together the way that mythologies form into cults and religions by combining stories about external threats. You can see this in present-day disinformation because conspiracy theory adherence is rarely about one thing. it's always a package deal.

mistermann 3y ago
Careful though: we don't have any way of knowing with remotely any accuracy what the conspiracy theory world is composed of, or what conspiracy theorists believe, we only can go on what others (often very persuasively) say about them. Believe what you'd like, but at least have some realization of what's really going on.
- krapp 3y ago
  Conspiracy theorists have entire ecosystems of boards and forums where they themselves discuss what they believe, and they often spread their beliefs openly. The premise that "the conspiracy theory world" is a black box is ridiculous.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    > Conspiracy theorists have entire ecosystems of boards and forums where they themselves discuss what they believe, and they often spread their beliefs openly. Some of them do. > The premise that "the conspiracy theory world" is a black box is ridiculous. It is indeed - did you notice that it wasn't me who said that? You are bot criticizing conspiracy theorists, you are criticizing your internal representation of them, that's why you make unforced errors: what you see is not the thing itself. It is painful having to explain this to people over and over, and having them laugh as if it's some sort of a pseudo-scientific conspiracy theory - it is literally a scientific fact.
- cocacola1 3y ago
  > Believe what you'd like, but at least have some realization of what's really going on. What's really going on, though?
  - mistermann 3y ago
    Depends how technical you want to get with your terms, like "really" and "is". :)
    - cocacola1 3y ago
      I get the Bill Clinton reference, but to be fair, these were your terms.
hotdogscout 3y ago
How do you deal with how so much of our current values were once persecuted as misinformation?
stephc_int13 3y ago
It is (almost) always a package deal from all sides, because humans feel better when they are parts of a tribe. I agree that this is not a beneficial trait at this stage of our evolution, but it once was. Censorship can only reinforce the alienation and thus the internal cohesion of any tribe. Let them live and thrive and more importantly, let them counter each other.

goalieca 3y ago

Agreed. The worst kind of government is one that tries to control what people think and say. Approved narratives and facts are the way of dictatorships.

tzs 3y ago

> I don't mind the flat-earthers and the climate-skeptics and the crazy UFO tribe as long as I can hear different voices. Will you still not mind when all the different voices are saying things just as false as those? The fundamental problem is that generating false information is easier, faster, and cheaper than generating true information. It used to be expensive to publish information once you generated it and the channels that could spread it both widely and quickly were particularly expensive and there weren't many of them. The more affordable channels were much slower. It also used to be that long distance person to person communication was expensive. Most social communication was with people in your area. Both of these did a good job of countering the ease, speed, and cost advantage generating misinformation has over generating accurate information. Now neither of them holds. False information can easily completely swamp true information for people who are getting most of their information from their social media feeds, and that is a lot of people.

insickness 3y ago
> generating false information is easier, faster, and cheaper than generating true information I'd prefer having pockets of false information than a government decreeing what can and can't be said, as happened with covid. Once you have an official version of truth, those in power will manipulate it to their will.
npmccallum 3y ago
The problem is not that you are wrong. You are, in fact, correct. The problem is that there are only two possible solutions: 1. The human race adapts to disinformation. This probably takes a generation or two. 2. We hand over the greatest instrument for tyranny to either the government or large corporations. The first solution isn’t fun. But it is the only reasonable choice.