4 ms·

People here don't really get upset about trains being even ten minutes late. That's normal. And as far as safety is concerned, when every seat is full and ther

People here don't really get upset about trains being even ten minutes late. That's normal. And as far as safety is concerned, when every seat is full and there's already very little seat-to-seat distance, the aisle is crammed with people face to back with nothing to hang on to, and the vestibules are all full to the point that people are standing with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard, that is a crammed train. Dangerously so -- indeed, often illegally so. And this is quite normal, routine and unexceptional at commuter times, and that is not talking about the underground, where it is routine to be packed in to the point that someone's nose is against the window (mine was, yesterday). I'm sure there are trains elsewhere that are worse. There's nothing I can do about that; it doesn't really change my observation. (I'm not sure there's a really good point about gratitude here, either, when the people paying for these services where they don't get a seat have to take out substantial loans to afford the annual ticket, whereas you can travel from Cape Town to Johannesburg, with a sleeping car berth, for about 20% more than the amount it costs me to travel an hour into London at off-peak times. But that's a separate point.)

masfuerte 3y ago
Back in the 80s the trains still had guard's vans. When you've stood in the middle of a crammed, unlit, violently shaking box with nothing for anyone to hang on to, a place in the aisle seems like luxury! On the other hand, the intercity seats were more comfortable in those days, the windows opened and you didn't have to wait for the train to stop before you got off.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  Yeah. I went to school on the train and did that a couple of dozen times over seven years. Also remember being horrifyingly crammed into the corridor of a former first class carriage.
SoftTalker 3y ago
> when every seat is full and there's already very little seat-to-seat distance, the aisle is crammed with people face to back with nothing to hang on to, and the vestibules are all full to the point that people are standing with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard, that is a crammed train. That was the Metra BN line in Chicago when I lived there, at least the rush hour departures at around 5:00pm. I was on a train so full that I could not even fully get into the vestibule, I had to push people in with my body so the door could close behind me. Many times the CTA trains were similarly full.
iggldiggl 3y ago
> with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard Generally speaking and especially when compared with trams or buses, mainline trains don't really do "hard" braking, though. Though I concede that the jerk of coming to a full stop with the brakes fully applied (during regular braking drivers and/or the train control system will ease off the brakes before stopping) may be somewhat borderline in terms of keeping your stability.

masfuerte 3y ago

Back in the 80s the trains still had guard's vans. When you've stood in the middle of a crammed, unlit, violently shaking box with nothing for anyone to hang on to, a place in the aisle seems like luxury! On the other hand, the intercity seats were more comfortable in those days, the windows opened and you didn't have to wait for the train to stop before you got off.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
Yeah. I went to school on the train and did that a couple of dozen times over seven years. Also remember being horrifyingly crammed into the corridor of a former first class carriage.

SoftTalker 3y ago

> when every seat is full and there's already very little seat-to-seat distance, the aisle is crammed with people face to back with nothing to hang on to, and the vestibules are all full to the point that people are standing with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard, that is a crammed train. That was the Metra BN line in Chicago when I lived there, at least the rush hour departures at around 5:00pm. I was on a train so full that I could not even fully get into the vestibule, I had to push people in with my body so the door could close behind me. Many times the CTA trains were similarly full.

iggldiggl 3y ago

> with nothing to support them if the train brakes hard Generally speaking and especially when compared with trams or buses, mainline trains don't really do "hard" braking, though. Though I concede that the jerk of coming to a full stop with the brakes fully applied (during regular braking drivers and/or the train control system will ease off the brakes before stopping) may be somewhat borderline in terms of keeping your stability.