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Disinformation like "Hunter's Laptop is Russian Disinformation"? Disinformation like "Russians are planting Maui Wildfire roadblock rumors" stories? "Disinform

Disinformation like "Hunter's Laptop is Russian Disinformation"? Disinformation like "Russians are planting Maui Wildfire roadblock rumors" stories? "Disinformation" has become the blanket term applied to any disagreement with official lies.

consumer451 3y ago
Is your position that organized disinformation campaigns, from any and all sources, should not be quelled?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Is that a rhetorical question?
  - consumer451 3y ago
    No, but I have a slight hangover from speaking with a Russian friend in the EU who does not believe that there is any "truth." That could be coloring my comments here.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Understood. The people that are the most vocal around this whole 'post truth' thing are as a rule part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Usually it boils down to 'don't trust the government, don't trust your eyes, don't trust the media and don't trust your friends', but here is a link to a shady website with a bunch of ridiculous stuff that you should definitely trust. Very boring, really.
      - consumer451 3y ago
        > Very boring, really. Indeed. But even worse, it is also exhausting. Meta: This post was removed from the HN feed entirely. Not just bumped off the frontpage, as I have seen before. From frontpage to oblivion. Would love to know the admin logic there. Now it is flagged, but it was removed from the feed prior to that by admins. I know, I know, first rule of fight club. But to quote Cicero, what's the point of fake internet points if you can't use them?
      - mistermann 3y ago
        [flagged]
- h2odragon 3y ago
  "quelled"? how? If you think a story is bullshite, you should be free to say so. If you disagree, likewise. So many things that have been characterized as "organized disinformation campaigns" over the last 3 years turned out to be individuals expressing opinions; the organization and the lies were on the other side of those conflicts. Where do we put advertising in this? Does Red bull give you wings or cancer? Should someone be allowed to pay others to propagate a message stating one, but not the other? (edited to try to increase clarity)
  - consumer451 3y ago
    > If you think that's what it is, you should be free to say so. If you disagree, likewise. If somebody creates a media platform, do they not have responsibility as to how that platform is used? I believe that they do. Let's take the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar. Should FB be off the hook for expanding into a country where they had no language skills to enforce their own moderation rules? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 > "quelled"? how? There are all sorts of moderation tools. For example, Community Notes on twitter.
- FeepingCreature 3y ago
  Not the parent, but that is my position. "Quelled" implies an extremely uncomfortable level of centralized power. Of course, any individual user should be able to opt in and out of sources at will.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    > "Quelled" implies an extremely uncomfortable level of centralized power That's just reality. It should make you uncomfortable. There used to be thousands of newspaper editors who decided what we read. There were diverse views. Today a few network & platform owners have an extreme amount of power to decide what we read. For example, this post was on the front page, then suddenly an admin broke known HN rules and just removed it from the feed entirely. I have never seen this occur before. Later it was flagged, but an admin matching pg's temperament just yanked it to begin with.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    After some thought, I do understand that "quelled" was maybe the wrong English word to use. Maybe, "the amplification minimized."

consumer451 3y ago

Is your position that organized disinformation campaigns, from any and all sources, should not be quelled?

jacquesm 3y ago
Is that a rhetorical question?
- consumer451 3y ago
  No, but I have a slight hangover from speaking with a Russian friend in the EU who does not believe that there is any "truth." That could be coloring my comments here.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Understood. The people that are the most vocal around this whole 'post truth' thing are as a rule part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. Usually it boils down to 'don't trust the government, don't trust your eyes, don't trust the media and don't trust your friends', but here is a link to a shady website with a bunch of ridiculous stuff that you should definitely trust. Very boring, really.
    - consumer451 3y ago
      > Very boring, really. Indeed. But even worse, it is also exhausting. Meta: This post was removed from the HN feed entirely. Not just bumped off the frontpage, as I have seen before. From frontpage to oblivion. Would love to know the admin logic there. Now it is flagged, but it was removed from the feed prior to that by admins. I know, I know, first rule of fight club. But to quote Cicero, what's the point of fake internet points if you can't use them?
    - mistermann 3y ago
      [flagged]
h2odragon 3y ago
"quelled"? how? If you think a story is bullshite, you should be free to say so. If you disagree, likewise. So many things that have been characterized as "organized disinformation campaigns" over the last 3 years turned out to be individuals expressing opinions; the organization and the lies were on the other side of those conflicts. Where do we put advertising in this? Does Red bull give you wings or cancer? Should someone be allowed to pay others to propagate a message stating one, but not the other? (edited to try to increase clarity)
- consumer451 3y ago
  > If you think that's what it is, you should be free to say so. If you disagree, likewise. If somebody creates a media platform, do they not have responsibility as to how that platform is used? I believe that they do. Let's take the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar. Should FB be off the hook for expanding into a country where they had no language skills to enforce their own moderation rules? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46105934 > "quelled"? how? There are all sorts of moderation tools. For example, Community Notes on twitter.
FeepingCreature 3y ago
Not the parent, but that is my position. "Quelled" implies an extremely uncomfortable level of centralized power. Of course, any individual user should be able to opt in and out of sources at will.
- consumer451 3y ago
  > "Quelled" implies an extremely uncomfortable level of centralized power That's just reality. It should make you uncomfortable. There used to be thousands of newspaper editors who decided what we read. There were diverse views. Today a few network & platform owners have an extreme amount of power to decide what we read. For example, this post was on the front page, then suddenly an admin broke known HN rules and just removed it from the feed entirely. I have never seen this occur before. Later it was flagged, but an admin matching pg's temperament just yanked it to begin with.
- consumer451 3y ago
  After some thought, I do understand that "quelled" was maybe the wrong English word to use. Maybe, "the amplification minimized."