4 ms·

Who get to decide, other than the individual, what to do about that? A bunch of bureaucrats in EU? Thanks but no thanks.

Mistletoe 3y ago
Who decides here? A bunch of corporations that will always put humans last? Thanks but no thanks.
- ThomPete 3y ago
  Which is why we have RIGHTS so that we can go after those who do us wrong. What the EU is doing is regulation HOW they should act which is the sure way undermine your own citizens ability to stay competitive in the long run.
  - notpachet 3y ago
    There's nothing special about "rights" as one person or other defines them. They aren't written in the fabric of the universe. We collectively decide what qualifies as a basic right, and we can (theoretically...) change our mind about that over time. Rights aren't about "going after those who do us wrong". It's about establishing a relative framework by which we can try to mediate differences in opinion about whose liberties are more important in this or that situation. Codifying something as a "right" is basically just society's way of signalling that this particular area is one where we all agree we're going to be very reluctant to step on people's individual liberties. But that doesn't mean that there are NO situations where those liberties can be impinged. Incarceration is one example. You seem to draw a hard distinction between rights and regulation, but they're really just two tools in service of the same goal.
    - ThomPete 3y ago
      You are completely missing the point. Regulation isnt written into the fabrics of reality either. The point is that rights are given to individuals so they can use them if they are violated to get justice in the legal system. Regulation is forcing companies not just to respect those rights but to force to respect them in a certain way. This breeds stagnation and ends up hurting the rights of the individual because now large companies will be able to push responsibility away under the guise of we followed the regulation. the fact that so many here on hacker news of all places seems to be ok with that is puzzling.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    rights are a type of regulation
- kibwen 3y ago
  "Faceless bureaucracies are bad!" "So, corporations are bad?" "No no, not those faceless bureaucracies, obviously."
pohuing 3y ago
The representatives of the people of the European union.
- ThomPete 3y ago
  Which no one voted for because of this.
notpachet 3y ago
This is what governments are for. Sometimes your individual liberties collide with other people's individual liberties, or the collective liberties of the society. You elect a government and then they act on your behalf in order to reconcile these conflicts of interest. The people of the EU elected their representatives. They're free to leave the EU (individually or collectively) if they don't like how that's working for them. If you're not in the EU and you don't like their terms, don't do business with them.
- FredPret 3y ago
  > don't do business with them. Looking at economic trends, this is an increasingly popular choice
mahkeiro 3y ago
Seems that you are unaware of how the EU is working with direct and indirect representatives validating laws and acts. The DSA was voted by the EU Parliament in July 2022. The EU parliament is elected directly by EU citizen. Every time I see someone yelling "EU bureaucrats" I can guess that they don't really understand what the word really means.
- im3w1l 3y ago
  As a European, most people I know have a very vague idea of what EU is or does. They know it's a trade union and that you can get across the borders easily and even work in other EU countries, but beyond that it's a blur. Like if you ask them what the difference between the EU parliament and the EU commission is they wouldn't be able to answer. They vote because "I guess you should" but don't really know what they are voting for. So even though they might be elected, you can't assume that their actions represent the will of the people (I should really say peoples, plural, because Europeans don't really consider themselves a people either).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ThomPete 3y ago
  i am unfortunately all to aware how the EU work. No EU politician went to the ballot boxes on this issue.

Mistletoe 3y ago

Who decides here? A bunch of corporations that will always put humans last? Thanks but no thanks.

ThomPete 3y ago
Which is why we have RIGHTS so that we can go after those who do us wrong. What the EU is doing is regulation HOW they should act which is the sure way undermine your own citizens ability to stay competitive in the long run.
- notpachet 3y ago
  There's nothing special about "rights" as one person or other defines them. They aren't written in the fabric of the universe. We collectively decide what qualifies as a basic right, and we can (theoretically...) change our mind about that over time. Rights aren't about "going after those who do us wrong". It's about establishing a relative framework by which we can try to mediate differences in opinion about whose liberties are more important in this or that situation. Codifying something as a "right" is basically just society's way of signalling that this particular area is one where we all agree we're going to be very reluctant to step on people's individual liberties. But that doesn't mean that there are NO situations where those liberties can be impinged. Incarceration is one example. You seem to draw a hard distinction between rights and regulation, but they're really just two tools in service of the same goal.
  - ThomPete 3y ago
    You are completely missing the point. Regulation isnt written into the fabrics of reality either. The point is that rights are given to individuals so they can use them if they are violated to get justice in the legal system. Regulation is forcing companies not just to respect those rights but to force to respect them in a certain way. This breeds stagnation and ends up hurting the rights of the individual because now large companies will be able to push responsibility away under the guise of we followed the regulation. the fact that so many here on hacker news of all places seems to be ok with that is puzzling.
- permo-w 3y ago
  rights are a type of regulation
kibwen 3y ago
"Faceless bureaucracies are bad!" "So, corporations are bad?" "No no, not those faceless bureaucracies, obviously."

pohuing 3y ago

The representatives of the people of the European union.

ThomPete 3y ago
Which no one voted for because of this.

notpachet 3y ago

This is what governments are for. Sometimes your individual liberties collide with other people's individual liberties, or the collective liberties of the society. You elect a government and then they act on your behalf in order to reconcile these conflicts of interest. The people of the EU elected their representatives. They're free to leave the EU (individually or collectively) if they don't like how that's working for them. If you're not in the EU and you don't like their terms, don't do business with them.

FredPret 3y ago
> don't do business with them. Looking at economic trends, this is an increasingly popular choice

mahkeiro 3y ago

Seems that you are unaware of how the EU is working with direct and indirect representatives validating laws and acts. The DSA was voted by the EU Parliament in July 2022. The EU parliament is elected directly by EU citizen. Every time I see someone yelling "EU bureaucrats" I can guess that they don't really understand what the word really means.

im3w1l 3y ago
As a European, most people I know have a very vague idea of what EU is or does. They know it's a trade union and that you can get across the borders easily and even work in other EU countries, but beyond that it's a blur. Like if you ask them what the difference between the EU parliament and the EU commission is they wouldn't be able to answer. They vote because "I guess you should" but don't really know what they are voting for. So even though they might be elected, you can't assume that their actions represent the will of the people (I should really say peoples, plural, because Europeans don't really consider themselves a people either).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ThomPete 3y ago
i am unfortunately all to aware how the EU work. No EU politician went to the ballot boxes on this issue.