4 ms·

Just seems like a politically motivated punishment vs Elon. Out of all the corrupt things US Corps are doing, this is what they are focusing on?

by treme 3y ago

tpmx 3y ago
From the DOJ's complaint. Seems to me like it could become quite expensive. https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline THEREFORE, Complainant respectfully requests: ... Order SpaceX to hire applicants who were victims of the discriminatory practices alleged in this Complaint and were qualified for employment; Order SpaceX to pay back pay, including interest, and all other relief available to each individual discriminated against who was qualified and who is found to have suffered uncompensated lost wages due to denied or delayed employment as a result of the discriminatory practices alleged in this Complaint
- wrp 3y ago
  Would the burden be on the applicants to prove they definitely would have been hired if not for the discrimination?
  - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
    In a sane world, yes. It could be different in clown world, though, so it is best to consult an attorney which specializes in these matters.
- mgiannopoulos 3y ago
  I am not a lawyer so who is going to look for these imaginary refugees who didn’t apply for a job because they were discouraged by the wrongly-set job ad? Will the DOJ somehow come up with an estimation of the number of people affected?
  - rafram 3y ago
    Read the complaint. There were specific instances of job applicants being turned away because of this imaginary law. If the DoJ wins the suit, they’ll require SpaceX to look back through their records and put together a full list.
    - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
      But what about those who never applied? Are they supposed to be compensated and how?
csydas 3y ago
It's not a punishment for punishment's sake, individuals were allegedly affected by SpaceX's incorrect (and apparently illegal) policy, and they lodged a complaint via the official channels. https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline There are 17 specific examples of instances where Musk/SpaceX were publicly and repeatedly disseminating incorrect information about their hiring requirements (sections 34-51), the appropriate governmental department looked into it, found out that yes, Musk and SpaceX officials were repeatedly providing incorrect and false information, and that the complaints they received were legitimate complaints. It's not a targeted attack; persons had legitimate grievances against SpaceX, went to the appropriate governmental departments to register their complaints, the department investigated and found out that indeed, Musk and SpaceX were violating the law. The emphasis on Musk is only because there are multiple instances cited in the filing where Musk himself was spreading the incorrect information on his social media sites consistently and repeatedly. Even if we give the most benign understanding that SpaceX just misunderstood the laws, it still was incorrect behavior that needs to be stopped. I really cannot see this as political motivated; regardless of the reasons SpaceX did this, they were not compliant with the law and actively spreading incorrect information. If it was any other company not Musk-adjacent, probably we wouldn't be having this conversation :) Instead we have another example where Musk and Musk-adjacent companies are being held to tasks for the things they say and actions they've taken which have negatively affected others improperly.
- pc_edwin 3y ago
  Every company that has to follow ITAR does this. Its simply not feasible to determine and continuously monitor the legibility of asylees and refugees. Set aside how expensive it will be, you will inevitably end up breaking ITAR laws which is significantly worse.
  - delfinom 3y ago
    Not even that, ITAR and other regulations are "vague" because a non-legal person just being in the room where ITAR work is performed can be considered a violation of ITAR. Then you have to spare significant expense sectioning off buildings, access control and security just to maintain that ITARness. This makes non-ITAR compliant janitors a harder bargain to hire. Same for the cafeteria workers the DOJ mentions, they may overhear discussion of ITAR work in the cafeteria and that's a problem. For companies that mostly do ITAR work, it's a no brainer to stick to hiring just ITAR compliant individuals. Companies would fall over themselves to hire cheap labor otherwise LOL.

Just seems like a politically motivated punishment vs Elon. Out of all the corrupt things US Corps are doing, this is what they are focusing on?

by treme 3y ago

Just seems like a politically motivated punishment vs Elon. Out of all the corrupt things US Corps are doing, this is what they are focusing on?

tpmx 3y ago

From the DOJ's complaint. Seems to me like it could become quite expensive. https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline THEREFORE, Complainant respectfully requests: ... Order SpaceX to hire applicants who were victims of the discriminatory practices alleged in this Complaint and were qualified for employment; Order SpaceX to pay back pay, including interest, and all other relief available to each individual discriminated against who was qualified and who is found to have suffered uncompensated lost wages due to denied or delayed employment as a result of the discriminatory practices alleged in this Complaint

wrp 3y ago
Would the burden be on the applicants to prove they definitely would have been hired if not for the discrimination?
- iraqmtpizza 3y ago
  In a sane world, yes. It could be different in clown world, though, so it is best to consult an attorney which specializes in these matters.
mgiannopoulos 3y ago
I am not a lawyer so who is going to look for these imaginary refugees who didn’t apply for a job because they were discouraged by the wrongly-set job ad? Will the DOJ somehow come up with an estimation of the number of people affected?
- rafram 3y ago
  Read the complaint. There were specific instances of job applicants being turned away because of this imaginary law. If the DoJ wins the suit, they’ll require SpaceX to look back through their records and put together a full list.
  - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
    But what about those who never applied? Are they supposed to be compensated and how?

csydas 3y ago

It's not a punishment for punishment's sake, individuals were allegedly affected by SpaceX's incorrect (and apparently illegal) policy, and they lodged a complaint via the official channels. https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline There are 17 specific examples of instances where Musk/SpaceX were publicly and repeatedly disseminating incorrect information about their hiring requirements (sections 34-51), the appropriate governmental department looked into it, found out that yes, Musk and SpaceX officials were repeatedly providing incorrect and false information, and that the complaints they received were legitimate complaints. It's not a targeted attack; persons had legitimate grievances against SpaceX, went to the appropriate governmental departments to register their complaints, the department investigated and found out that indeed, Musk and SpaceX were violating the law. The emphasis on Musk is only because there are multiple instances cited in the filing where Musk himself was spreading the incorrect information on his social media sites consistently and repeatedly. Even if we give the most benign understanding that SpaceX just misunderstood the laws, it still was incorrect behavior that needs to be stopped. I really cannot see this as political motivated; regardless of the reasons SpaceX did this, they were not compliant with the law and actively spreading incorrect information. If it was any other company not Musk-adjacent, probably we wouldn't be having this conversation :) Instead we have another example where Musk and Musk-adjacent companies are being held to tasks for the things they say and actions they've taken which have negatively affected others improperly.

pc_edwin 3y ago
Every company that has to follow ITAR does this. Its simply not feasible to determine and continuously monitor the legibility of asylees and refugees. Set aside how expensive it will be, you will inevitably end up breaking ITAR laws which is significantly worse.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Not even that, ITAR and other regulations are "vague" because a non-legal person just being in the room where ITAR work is performed can be considered a violation of ITAR. Then you have to spare significant expense sectioning off buildings, access control and security just to maintain that ITARness. This makes non-ITAR compliant janitors a harder bargain to hire. Same for the cafeteria workers the DOJ mentions, they may overhear discussion of ITAR work in the cafeteria and that's a problem. For companies that mostly do ITAR work, it's a no brainer to stick to hiring just ITAR compliant individuals. Companies would fall over themselves to hire cheap labor otherwise LOL.