7 ms·

I feel like most artists make their rules after the fact. The stuff comes from the sky, and it’s only afterward that you convince yourself you had something to

I feel like most artists make their rules after the fact. The stuff comes from the sky, and it’s only afterward that you convince yourself you had something to do with it.

sfpotter 3y ago
Your comment was only downvoted because the average HN reader is not artistically inclined.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  I am not convinced about this. I can't really know what you mean based on this one sentence (or the parent comment from that one sentence), but the really good artists I know absolutely lay down rules for themselves. All art, fundamentally, emerges in part from creative constraints and from practice of communicating within them. And good artists absolutely know this (whether they would express it in this generalised way or not). Good artists can switch from medium to medium by exploring the constraints (beyond just the physical limits of charcoal or clay or stacking stones) and then figuring out how to communicate with them. But you don't really get very far without imposing additional restrictions on the work that help frame the message you're trying to convey. Artists who invent new mediums of expression do this same thing implicitly; the medium at some level is its constraints. So experienced artists usually do make up rules for themselves (or at least positive schemes and negative no-go areas) whether they write them down or not.
- strken 3y ago
  I didn't downvote it, but I also don't agree that a set of rules that amount to "pace yourself to avoid burnout" is a post-hoc rational justification of mysterious otherworldly guidance from the sky. Since the actual rules from the article are about keeping yourself mentally healthy during the process of writing, the comment is obscure: does it refer to some other set of rules about art? (In which case it's off-topic.) Or is it making the claim that you could work in blocks of multiple hours and never socialise with other writers and see the same results? (In which case, why not clearly state a position so it can be discussed?)
  - lsmeducation 3y ago
    “Pace yourself” is a general rule that can be applied to anything in life. claim that you could work in blocks of multiple hours and never socialise with other writers and see the same results? Yep. There were some writers that were straight up bed-ridden. They would laugh at your little ruleset. Lastly, I wasn’t downvoted. A reasonable amount of people seem to agree.
    - broscillator 3y ago
      > Yep. There were some writers that were straight up bed-ridden. They would laugh at your little ruleset. C'mon, we all know exceptions just prove the rules :) I'm sure there's many coders out there who write their code with only one finger in each hand. That does not render "learn to touch type with all 10 fingers" as invalid advice.
      - lsmeducation 3y ago
        I guess it's all perspective. I've always looked at exceptions as a base case.
    - strken 3y ago
      It's not my little ruleset and I agree that a writer doesn't have to hang out with other writers to get work done, or work in blocks of exactly 10 to 50 minutes; I just think you were very vague and never gave a specific objection to the content of the rules, which is quite a spineless thing to do. Prof. Robert Boice may be wrong, but at least his positions are stated clearly enough that we can see they're wrong.
- broscillator 3y ago
  I write every day and make music. I didn't downvote but there's a clear misunderstanding on this comment's part. The stuff does "come from the sky". The sitting down and getting the stuff done, that does not come from the sky. These rules apply only to that second aspect.
  - sfpotter 3y ago
    Follow These Five Easy Steps And You Too Can Be a Great Artist!
    - broscillator 3y ago
      More like, focus on becoming an artist first, whether great or not, that comes later.
5tefan 3y ago
Supported. It is survivorship bias. I do sometimes learn something through reading that stuff that makes my life a little easier. But it won't make me more successfull. Pretty sur about that.
goto11 3y ago
> The stuff comes from the sky, and it’s only afterward that you convince yourself you had something to do with it Oh yes, the romantic notion of "inspiration" from the gods. I guess this works if you are gentleman poet, having the leisure time to "wait for inspiration". But for most professional writers without a family fortune, you have deadlines to meet and you need to understand the creative process just as any artist need to know the tools they use.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  And that process is surprisingly full of rigour and self-imposed restriction. Cinema is an excellent example of this. Good cinematographers follow a set of cinematic conventions that have emerged as "rules" and around which the industry has evolved (like the single-camera convention). Great cinematographers invent rules and convey them to the viewer in the first act and use them to communicate the rest of the film. And to make this point even more clear you could substitute throughout the above for animation/animators, and everyone would get it.
- lsmeducation 3y ago
  Not “inspiration”, I am literally talking about pure intuition. I’m sure it’s one of the few things that’s provable with just anecdotes. You can have whatever ruleset you want, your ass ain’t making Reservoir Dogs or writing Old Man and the Sea. Now imagine either of those two writers gave you a list of rules to follow. You’d throw that piece of paper in the garbage. It’s a like a hot girl giving you work-out and diet advice. Thanks, I’m sure that’s what really got you your beauty. It’s from the SKY.
  - andrei_says_ 3y ago
    I wholeheartedly agree with you. Not everyone is a writer. Surely rules can improve someone’s writing but what do they have to say? That’s up to them, their curiosity, drive, obsessions - and is completely unique. I posit that the tendency to stick with writing and have discipline and honing the craft is one of the gifts.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
cpach 3y ago
FWIW: The persons who wrote/compiled this advice are scholars. Not sure if that counts as artists? OTOH, most succesful artists seem to work quite hard, AFAICT.
broscillator 3y ago
It seems like you've either not read the rules, or don't understand their purpose. On the one hand you're not wrong, but this observation applies to most of life, not just art. As much as people like to think they're rational beings because of the media they consume or the knowledge they've acquired, a lot of life just happens and you justify your decisions with a reasonable sounding narrative. But within that framework, you're really misunderstanding the purpose and value of these rules. It's not a map to get you to a specific destination like "writing the greatest novel", it's instructions to make sure that you don't run out of gas, take enough water with you and rest enough to make sure you don't crash the car on your way to wherever you're going. Whether your novel is great, whether it resonates with people, whether you'll die and only after that people will recognize the value of your work, that comes from the sky. But to get your ass to sit on the chair and bang those keys, that does not come from the sky, anyone who has actually tried will tell you that.
- lsmeducation 3y ago
  The rules are given in the context of writing. I read it, most of it is generic. It’s almost as if the person knows there’s no real rules to the game, and humble enough to just give basic life advice. But I’ll concede, I don’t understand the purpose of offering general life rules under the guise of writing well. I really don’t. Is it an exercise in authority, or flexing a mandate, or what exactly is it? It sure as hell ain’t any real insight into writing. But to get your ass to sit on the chair and bang those keys, that does not come from the sky, anyone who has actually tried will tell you that. Writers block, right? Or, when the sky stops talking to you. Now that’s a phenomenon that’s worth describing. But alas, pace yourself, got it. I’ll try not finish the entire burger, and save the rest for later. Shocked they didn’t mention a small walk, or coffee with an old friend. What’s up my ass today I guess.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    I think there are pretty valuable things in the generics in there too, like: Start before you feel ready. Stop before you feel done. This is a surprising antidote for a lot of behaviours I struggle with (that come from a mix of definite OCD and likely ADHD. It's absolutely a tool for rejecting waiting for inspiration and focussing instead on control of inner drive.

I feel like most artists make their rules after the fact. The stuff comes from the sky, and it’s only afterward that you convince yourself you had something to do with it.

sfpotter 3y ago

Your comment was only downvoted because the average HN reader is not artistically inclined.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
I am not convinced about this. I can't really know what you mean based on this one sentence (or the parent comment from that one sentence), but the really good artists I know absolutely lay down rules for themselves. All art, fundamentally, emerges in part from creative constraints and from practice of communicating within them. And good artists absolutely know this (whether they would express it in this generalised way or not). Good artists can switch from medium to medium by exploring the constraints (beyond just the physical limits of charcoal or clay or stacking stones) and then figuring out how to communicate with them. But you don't really get very far without imposing additional restrictions on the work that help frame the message you're trying to convey. Artists who invent new mediums of expression do this same thing implicitly; the medium at some level is its constraints. So experienced artists usually do make up rules for themselves (or at least positive schemes and negative no-go areas) whether they write them down or not.
strken 3y ago
I didn't downvote it, but I also don't agree that a set of rules that amount to "pace yourself to avoid burnout" is a post-hoc rational justification of mysterious otherworldly guidance from the sky. Since the actual rules from the article are about keeping yourself mentally healthy during the process of writing, the comment is obscure: does it refer to some other set of rules about art? (In which case it's off-topic.) Or is it making the claim that you could work in blocks of multiple hours and never socialise with other writers and see the same results? (In which case, why not clearly state a position so it can be discussed?)
- lsmeducation 3y ago
  “Pace yourself” is a general rule that can be applied to anything in life. claim that you could work in blocks of multiple hours and never socialise with other writers and see the same results? Yep. There were some writers that were straight up bed-ridden. They would laugh at your little ruleset. Lastly, I wasn’t downvoted. A reasonable amount of people seem to agree.
  - broscillator 3y ago
    > Yep. There were some writers that were straight up bed-ridden. They would laugh at your little ruleset. C'mon, we all know exceptions just prove the rules :) I'm sure there's many coders out there who write their code with only one finger in each hand. That does not render "learn to touch type with all 10 fingers" as invalid advice.
    - lsmeducation 3y ago
      I guess it's all perspective. I've always looked at exceptions as a base case.
  - strken 3y ago
    It's not my little ruleset and I agree that a writer doesn't have to hang out with other writers to get work done, or work in blocks of exactly 10 to 50 minutes; I just think you were very vague and never gave a specific objection to the content of the rules, which is quite a spineless thing to do. Prof. Robert Boice may be wrong, but at least his positions are stated clearly enough that we can see they're wrong.
broscillator 3y ago
I write every day and make music. I didn't downvote but there's a clear misunderstanding on this comment's part. The stuff does "come from the sky". The sitting down and getting the stuff done, that does not come from the sky. These rules apply only to that second aspect.
- sfpotter 3y ago
  Follow These Five Easy Steps And You Too Can Be a Great Artist!
  - broscillator 3y ago
    More like, focus on becoming an artist first, whether great or not, that comes later.

5tefan 3y ago

Supported. It is survivorship bias. I do sometimes learn something through reading that stuff that makes my life a little easier. But it won't make me more successfull. Pretty sur about that.

goto11 3y ago

> The stuff comes from the sky, and it’s only afterward that you convince yourself you had something to do with it Oh yes, the romantic notion of "inspiration" from the gods. I guess this works if you are gentleman poet, having the leisure time to "wait for inspiration". But for most professional writers without a family fortune, you have deadlines to meet and you need to understand the creative process just as any artist need to know the tools they use.

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
And that process is surprisingly full of rigour and self-imposed restriction. Cinema is an excellent example of this. Good cinematographers follow a set of cinematic conventions that have emerged as "rules" and around which the industry has evolved (like the single-camera convention). Great cinematographers invent rules and convey them to the viewer in the first act and use them to communicate the rest of the film. And to make this point even more clear you could substitute throughout the above for animation/animators, and everyone would get it.
lsmeducation 3y ago
Not “inspiration”, I am literally talking about pure intuition. I’m sure it’s one of the few things that’s provable with just anecdotes. You can have whatever ruleset you want, your ass ain’t making Reservoir Dogs or writing Old Man and the Sea. Now imagine either of those two writers gave you a list of rules to follow. You’d throw that piece of paper in the garbage. It’s a like a hot girl giving you work-out and diet advice. Thanks, I’m sure that’s what really got you your beauty. It’s from the SKY.
- andrei_says_ 3y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree with you. Not everyone is a writer. Surely rules can improve someone’s writing but what do they have to say? That’s up to them, their curiosity, drive, obsessions - and is completely unique. I posit that the tendency to stick with writing and have discipline and honing the craft is one of the gifts.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago

cpach 3y ago

FWIW: The persons who wrote/compiled this advice are scholars. Not sure if that counts as artists? OTOH, most succesful artists seem to work quite hard, AFAICT.

broscillator 3y ago

It seems like you've either not read the rules, or don't understand their purpose. On the one hand you're not wrong, but this observation applies to most of life, not just art. As much as people like to think they're rational beings because of the media they consume or the knowledge they've acquired, a lot of life just happens and you justify your decisions with a reasonable sounding narrative. But within that framework, you're really misunderstanding the purpose and value of these rules. It's not a map to get you to a specific destination like "writing the greatest novel", it's instructions to make sure that you don't run out of gas, take enough water with you and rest enough to make sure you don't crash the car on your way to wherever you're going. Whether your novel is great, whether it resonates with people, whether you'll die and only after that people will recognize the value of your work, that comes from the sky. But to get your ass to sit on the chair and bang those keys, that does not come from the sky, anyone who has actually tried will tell you that.

lsmeducation 3y ago
The rules are given in the context of writing. I read it, most of it is generic. It’s almost as if the person knows there’s no real rules to the game, and humble enough to just give basic life advice. But I’ll concede, I don’t understand the purpose of offering general life rules under the guise of writing well. I really don’t. Is it an exercise in authority, or flexing a mandate, or what exactly is it? It sure as hell ain’t any real insight into writing. But to get your ass to sit on the chair and bang those keys, that does not come from the sky, anyone who has actually tried will tell you that. Writers block, right? Or, when the sky stops talking to you. Now that’s a phenomenon that’s worth describing. But alas, pace yourself, got it. I’ll try not finish the entire burger, and save the rest for later. Shocked they didn’t mention a small walk, or coffee with an old friend. What’s up my ass today I guess.
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  I think there are pretty valuable things in the generics in there too, like: Start before you feel ready. Stop before you feel done. This is a surprising antidote for a lot of behaviours I struggle with (that come from a mix of definite OCD and likely ADHD. It's absolutely a tool for rejecting waiting for inspiration and focussing instead on control of inner drive.