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Rather than taking Stephen Dubner's word for it, who may not know how collective bargaining work, do you have a source for the claim that the newspaper union li

Rather than taking Stephen Dubner's word for it, who may not know how collective bargaining work, do you have a source for the claim that the newspaper union limited their members' salaries? Because I have not heard of unions that disallow members from negotiating better deals with employers. > Unions have arguably been good for straight white native born men. Where "arguably" means "it's trivial to claim but I have absolutely no supporting evidence."

gamblor956 3y ago
Dubner was simply wrong (which is par for the course if you've ever tried following Freakonomics and realized that it was just poorly researched pop sociology that sounds good in a podcast but doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny). For starters, there is no such thing as the "Newspaper Guild;" the News Guild represents staffers at the NYT and a number of other newspapers. While it does set minimum wages based on seniority, it does not mandate lockstep wages or anything else like that; guild members are free to negotiate higher packages than the minimum, and many (like Maureen Dowd) did.
msla 3y ago
Yes, unions have a racism problem. Do you think any large institution hasn't? https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/more-perfect-union-trade-construction-racism-pennsylvania-20220830.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/more-perfect-union-trade-... > Racism, couched as union solidarity, has always been a part of the trades – embedded in their founding stories, their mythology. Their very success, some historians argue, was built on the exclusion of Black workers. [snip] > The local building trades have refused to share demographic data on the workers they represent. But the most recent available data from 2012 show that the industry’s union workforce was 99% male and 76% white in a city that is nearly 44% Black, and where other major labor unions are predominantly African American.
baron816 3y ago
Can you point me to any unions where it's common for workers to get paid according to merit? Yes, I'm sure it's possible for workers to negotiate a separate deal with employers, but does that actually happen regularly in practice?
- bjourne 3y ago
  Of course I can, if you first define what "merit" is. Meanwhile, in Europe, it is very common for unionized employees to negotiate higher salaries than the "floor" that the collective bargaining agreement stipulates. So yes it does happen regularly in practice.

gamblor956 3y ago

Dubner was simply wrong (which is par for the course if you've ever tried following Freakonomics and realized that it was just poorly researched pop sociology that sounds good in a podcast but doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny). For starters, there is no such thing as the "Newspaper Guild;" the News Guild represents staffers at the NYT and a number of other newspapers. While it does set minimum wages based on seniority, it does not mandate lockstep wages or anything else like that; guild members are free to negotiate higher packages than the minimum, and many (like Maureen Dowd) did.

msla 3y ago

Yes, unions have a racism problem. Do you think any large institution hasn't? https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/more-perfect-union-trade-construction-racism-pennsylvania-20220830.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/more-perfect-union-trade-... > Racism, couched as union solidarity, has always been a part of the trades – embedded in their founding stories, their mythology. Their very success, some historians argue, was built on the exclusion of Black workers. [snip] > The local building trades have refused to share demographic data on the workers they represent. But the most recent available data from 2012 show that the industry’s union workforce was 99% male and 76% white in a city that is nearly 44% Black, and where other major labor unions are predominantly African American.

baron816 3y ago

Can you point me to any unions where it's common for workers to get paid according to merit? Yes, I'm sure it's possible for workers to negotiate a separate deal with employers, but does that actually happen regularly in practice?

bjourne 3y ago
Of course I can, if you first define what "merit" is. Meanwhile, in Europe, it is very common for unionized employees to negotiate higher salaries than the "floor" that the collective bargaining agreement stipulates. So yes it does happen regularly in practice.