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> Unions are necessary because your employer is richer, stronger, and has more lawyers than you do as an individual. In unity there is strength. To me this is

> Unions are necessary because your employer is richer, stronger, and has more lawyers than you do as an individual. In unity there is strength. To me this is the key point, that often gets lost or forgotten. Companies inherently benefit from a power imbalance, proportional to the size of the company, and you represent a cost center to them most of the time. This places you at a huge, and permanent, disadvantage, and one of the only ways to combat it is unify with other workers and bargain. The only person or group who exists to maximize your well-being is you/your union, not your employer, so it makes sense not to trust the employer to look out for you. They're busy maximizing returns for shareholders.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
I have seen many cases where senior union members, who often compose the leadership of the union, will strike deals that benefit older union members over younger union members. See all the government employee pension plans with tier benefits where older employees in older tiers have higher benefits than younger employees. Or they will accept underfunding for a couple decades since the underfunding will not affect benefits paid during their lifetime.
- asu_thomas 3y ago
  Some unions are better than others, but all unions are democratic (at least to some degree) and engaged members can improve them.
- UtopiaPunk 3y ago
  UAW is a large union that is, right now, trying to make their employers get rid of such a system. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-have-a-pension-they-dont-why-united-auto-workers-are-fighting-to-end-a-two-tier-system-for-wages-and-benefits-e11f1caa https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-have-a-pension-they-dont...
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  Yes, unions can be inefficient, ineffective, and even corrupt. They are democratic control over the workplace, with all the problems that brings with it. We elect plenty of shitty politicians after all. But the alternative is no chance of any power in the employment relationship. It is like saying "yeah we elected that president and they were garbage, we should really just let richest ten people in the country get together and decide who is president moving forward." Benevolent megacorps aren't really real. When WalMart was found to be systematically underpaying and underpromoting women in their stores through rigorous statistical analysis, the CEO did interviews saying that the company needed to do better and then turned around and argued in front of the Supreme Court that all of the underpaid women couldn't count as a class for a class action suit and had their claims dismissed.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    >It is like saying "yeah we elected that president and they were garbage, we should really just let richest ten people in the country get together and decide who is president moving forward." I did not intend to make an anti union statement, just wanted to show how a “union” might not have the best interest of all union members in mind. Similar to how older taxpayers punt costs into future taxpayers.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I have seen many cases where senior union members, who often compose the leadership of the union, will strike deals that benefit older union members over younger union members. See all the government employee pension plans with tier benefits where older employees in older tiers have higher benefits than younger employees. Or they will accept underfunding for a couple decades since the underfunding will not affect benefits paid during their lifetime.

asu_thomas 3y ago
Some unions are better than others, but all unions are democratic (at least to some degree) and engaged members can improve them.
UtopiaPunk 3y ago
UAW is a large union that is, right now, trying to make their employers get rid of such a system. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-have-a-pension-they-dont-why-united-auto-workers-are-fighting-to-end-a-two-tier-system-for-wages-and-benefits-e11f1caa https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-have-a-pension-they-dont...
UncleMeat 3y ago
Yes, unions can be inefficient, ineffective, and even corrupt. They are democratic control over the workplace, with all the problems that brings with it. We elect plenty of shitty politicians after all. But the alternative is no chance of any power in the employment relationship. It is like saying "yeah we elected that president and they were garbage, we should really just let richest ten people in the country get together and decide who is president moving forward." Benevolent megacorps aren't really real. When WalMart was found to be systematically underpaying and underpromoting women in their stores through rigorous statistical analysis, the CEO did interviews saying that the company needed to do better and then turned around and argued in front of the Supreme Court that all of the underpaid women couldn't count as a class for a class action suit and had their claims dismissed.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  >It is like saying "yeah we elected that president and they were garbage, we should really just let richest ten people in the country get together and decide who is president moving forward." I did not intend to make an anti union statement, just wanted to show how a “union” might not have the best interest of all union members in mind. Similar to how older taxpayers punt costs into future taxpayers.