5 ms·

That is a clear overreach. No doubt that's often what they're going for, but that's not the nominal purpose of searching property at the border.

by Zak 3y ago

refurb 3y ago
It absolutely is one of the purposes of a physical search. They can search your physical property to see if there is evidence you plan to work in the US or are lying about your intentions for entering the US (all countries do this). People have been denied entry because they bring work documents while saying they are entering the US for tourist purposes. I don’t disagree that search of electronic devices should be a higher bar, but physical searches to determine intent to enter has always been in immigrations remit.
- lstodd 3y ago
  Oh my god. So what if I intend to work in the US? This whole distinction is useless shit.
  - refurb 3y ago
    It’s illegal to work in the US (and most other countries) if you claim to enter for tourism.
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    That's an argument to be had but is extremely separate from this one. Each country has the right and privilege to determine who is allowed in and why. I may or may not like their choices but it's their right to make them. Most countries (this is empathically not some USA specific weirdness) make a significant distinction between those who want to enter temporarily to see the sights, vs those who want to enter more permanently, perform work, and thus engage themselves with the system more broadly (taxes, accident insurance, healthcare, what have you). While I personally 1. Think there should be more broad immigration into virtually every country but particularly mine and 2. Think border data searches are unreasonable, I think conflating the two detracts from either argument.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  > They can search your physical property to see if there is evidence you plan to work in the US or are lying about your intentions for entering the US (all countries do this). But doing this is useless. It only works once. People who intend to work on a travel visa bring their work documents across the border, one of them gets caught, they object and take it to court. If the court says the search is allowed then it's henceforth public knowledge that it's allowed so people intending to do this stop physically carrying their documents across the border and instead transfer them over the internet. Already it's common guidance for anyone to do that even if you're not breaking any laws, because it keeps them from rifling through your life and detaining you while they force you to explain whatever nonsense false positives they may find. At which point the search is purely an inconvenience to innocent people and a trap for the unwary because anyone actually breaking the law can easily avoid physically transporting any incriminating documents across the border.

That is a clear overreach. No doubt that's often what they're going for, but that's not the nominal purpose of searching property at the border.

by Zak 3y ago

That is a clear overreach. No doubt that's often what they're going for, but that's not the nominal purpose of searching property at the border.

refurb 3y ago

It absolutely is one of the purposes of a physical search. They can search your physical property to see if there is evidence you plan to work in the US or are lying about your intentions for entering the US (all countries do this). People have been denied entry because they bring work documents while saying they are entering the US for tourist purposes. I don’t disagree that search of electronic devices should be a higher bar, but physical searches to determine intent to enter has always been in immigrations remit.

lstodd 3y ago
Oh my god. So what if I intend to work in the US? This whole distinction is useless shit.
- refurb 3y ago
  It’s illegal to work in the US (and most other countries) if you claim to enter for tourism.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  That's an argument to be had but is extremely separate from this one. Each country has the right and privilege to determine who is allowed in and why. I may or may not like their choices but it's their right to make them. Most countries (this is empathically not some USA specific weirdness) make a significant distinction between those who want to enter temporarily to see the sights, vs those who want to enter more permanently, perform work, and thus engage themselves with the system more broadly (taxes, accident insurance, healthcare, what have you). While I personally 1. Think there should be more broad immigration into virtually every country but particularly mine and 2. Think border data searches are unreasonable, I think conflating the two detracts from either argument.
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> They can search your physical property to see if there is evidence you plan to work in the US or are lying about your intentions for entering the US (all countries do this). But doing this is useless. It only works once. People who intend to work on a travel visa bring their work documents across the border, one of them gets caught, they object and take it to court. If the court says the search is allowed then it's henceforth public knowledge that it's allowed so people intending to do this stop physically carrying their documents across the border and instead transfer them over the internet. Already it's common guidance for anyone to do that even if you're not breaking any laws, because it keeps them from rifling through your life and detaining you while they force you to explain whatever nonsense false positives they may find. At which point the search is purely an inconvenience to innocent people and a trap for the unwary because anyone actually breaking the law can easily avoid physically transporting any incriminating documents across the border.