5 ms·

It seems like the reason the shit is hitting the fan at this particular point in time is because of the recent AI and LLM race. If I were to guess, it probably

by klabb3 3y ago

It seems like the reason the shit is hitting the fan at this particular point in time is because of the recent AI and LLM race. If I were to guess, it probably originated in an edgy, hyperbolic statement like “the new AI empires will be built on the free data from the old ones”, uttered by someone scary and important, perhaps Altman. Through the rumor mill all the feudal lords in the data-kingdom, like Steve Huffman, Musk etc are freaking out and are fortifying their defenses against this new perceived existential threat, sacrificing whatever minuscule openness remained in the process. To me, it’s obvious that a new copyright interpretation is needed for commercial AI applications, which would alleviate the gold rush panic. However, the regulatory bodies (ironically, eroded by the same corporations), don’t have any teeth left to do anything about it, so it’s a Wild West, and they all know it. The legal defense against scraping has nothing to do with principles, even less so these days, it’s all just about abusing the legal system for dominance games. Personally, I think the threat is overblown. Yes, AI will force eg Google to improve their shit ranking of recipe sites, but AI can’t provide up-to-date stuff people care about, so Google, Facebook, Twitter etc will keep providing services just like today.

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ReactiveJelly 3y ago
I think it was already the case that a number of social media sites were cycling from the "Offer free bait" phase to the "Harvest the walled garden" phase. Twitter barely works on Tor. Reddit barely works if you're logged out. Reddit is pushing their app really hard and obviously going to drop old.reddit one day when their internal API finally breaks it off. If you make revenue from advertisements, having a web page that can be interpreted by any machine besides your own code is wasting money on freeloaders. Be they 3rd-party clients, Tor lurkers, or scrapers for search engines and AI.
- noduerme 3y ago
  Whenever anyone I know sends me a reddit link in a group chat, I relink them to old.reddit. The day they drop old.reddit is the day I start dropping those friends. I did put the app on my phone for a minute, since the "new" reddit web experience is so miserable, but the app was even more intolerable.
- totetsu 3y ago
  is there any more uptodate corpus of reddit comments out there? like this 2015 one https://archive.org/details/2015_reddit_comments_corpus https://archive.org/details/2015_reddit_comments_corpus (oh there is a 2TB torrent from 2005-06 to 2022-12)
iraqmtpizza 3y ago
other countries don't care about copyright interpretations. next you'll suggest global government. the internet always was a wild west and i do not particularly enjoy contemplating a scenario in which this ceases to be
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Whatever things are morphing into, it isn’t a “Wild West”. Unless you think of feudalism or indentured servitude as Wild or Western. It’s a place of a few royal palaces, with walls & moats, surrounded by the masses who submit the value of their creative & social efforts through little slots, for the right to receive in kind from others, but filtered & diluted with whatever the royalty wants you to see and hear. The evolution of aggregation sites is not on a path that enhances or maintains individual freedoms or independence. Amazon charging suppliers a fee for NOT using its services ought to be an Onion article. [0] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834653/amazon-seller-fees-shipping-fulfillment https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834653/amazon-seller-fe...
  - iraqmtpizza 3y ago
    >a decision Bloomberg says Amazon made to satisfy regulators Regulators are out of control, yes. But that does not change the fundamental nature of the internet. Especially as it pertains to something which is purely data, copyrighted material. Amazon is not stopping filipino and bulgarian kids from downloading mission impossible any time soon. Nor is it stopping people from bulgaria from paying for AI services in the Philippines which are trained on American data.
    - Nevermark 3y ago
      Amazon, Facebook, etc. don’t want to kill off anyone or their economic presence. Any more than a Duke or Earl wants to kill off peasants or stop them from playing and singing with their families in the evening. The lords just want to extract most of the value that they create, most of the value that they spend, and let them see what the lord wants them to see, an increasing percentage of time.

by klabb3 3y ago

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ReactiveJelly 3y ago

I think it was already the case that a number of social media sites were cycling from the "Offer free bait" phase to the "Harvest the walled garden" phase. Twitter barely works on Tor. Reddit barely works if you're logged out. Reddit is pushing their app really hard and obviously going to drop old.reddit one day when their internal API finally breaks it off. If you make revenue from advertisements, having a web page that can be interpreted by any machine besides your own code is wasting money on freeloaders. Be they 3rd-party clients, Tor lurkers, or scrapers for search engines and AI.

noduerme 3y ago
Whenever anyone I know sends me a reddit link in a group chat, I relink them to old.reddit. The day they drop old.reddit is the day I start dropping those friends. I did put the app on my phone for a minute, since the "new" reddit web experience is so miserable, but the app was even more intolerable.
totetsu 3y ago
is there any more uptodate corpus of reddit comments out there? like this 2015 one https://archive.org/details/2015_reddit_comments_corpus https://archive.org/details/2015_reddit_comments_corpus (oh there is a 2TB torrent from 2005-06 to 2022-12)

iraqmtpizza 3y ago

other countries don't care about copyright interpretations. next you'll suggest global government. the internet always was a wild west and i do not particularly enjoy contemplating a scenario in which this ceases to be

Nevermark 3y ago
Whatever things are morphing into, it isn’t a “Wild West”. Unless you think of feudalism or indentured servitude as Wild or Western. It’s a place of a few royal palaces, with walls & moats, surrounded by the masses who submit the value of their creative & social efforts through little slots, for the right to receive in kind from others, but filtered & diluted with whatever the royalty wants you to see and hear. The evolution of aggregation sites is not on a path that enhances or maintains individual freedoms or independence. Amazon charging suppliers a fee for NOT using its services ought to be an Onion article. [0] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834653/amazon-seller-fees-shipping-fulfillment https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834653/amazon-seller-fe...
- iraqmtpizza 3y ago
  >a decision Bloomberg says Amazon made to satisfy regulators Regulators are out of control, yes. But that does not change the fundamental nature of the internet. Especially as it pertains to something which is purely data, copyrighted material. Amazon is not stopping filipino and bulgarian kids from downloading mission impossible any time soon. Nor is it stopping people from bulgaria from paying for AI services in the Philippines which are trained on American data.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    Amazon, Facebook, etc. don’t want to kill off anyone or their economic presence. Any more than a Duke or Earl wants to kill off peasants or stop them from playing and singing with their families in the evening. The lords just want to extract most of the value that they create, most of the value that they spend, and let them see what the lord wants them to see, an increasing percentage of time.