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I don't think it's any more stable, dependable or predictable than any similarly mature Linux distro. It's just a preference, perhaps with a sliver of contraria

I don't think it's any more stable, dependable or predictable than any similarly mature Linux distro. It's just a preference, perhaps with a sliver of contrarianism.

hedora 3y ago
Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)? I never felt comfortable managing openbsd, but linux has repeatedly and gratuitously changed all the management tools, so now it’s easier for me to get around an openbsd box, despite using Linux daily, and openbsd maybe twice a year. (It’s a serious question. I’m strongly considering switching to one of the bsd’s at this point.)
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)? Are you not so subtly referring to the systemd fiasco? That was about, if not over 10 years ago. I also don't think it matters. Change is not a bad thing, and that change is not as hectic or constant as you seem to imply. If you really want a Linux distro that hasn't changed at all in the past 30 years, Slackware might be your bets bet, but I don't think that 'having not changed in the past 30 years' really makes sense as a metric. Personally, I'm a fan of Alpine and Void Linux, and I also run NetBSD. FreeBSD seems too 'messy' as someone that likes minimalism, and OpenBSD's security focus is misplaced IMO.
  - hedora 3y ago
    It’s not just systemd. Wayland broke the world. ifconfig doesn’t work anymore. File permissions don’t reliably work thanks to acls. There’s also the selinux vs cgroups vs ???, etc, etc.
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      ifconfig got replaced just as OpenBSD's pf replaced whatever it replaced. Wayland, ACLs, SELinux and cgroup are all just options, none are forced.
    - throwaway7356 3y ago
      > ifconfig Was deprecated ~20 years ago. Not a recent change. > selinux vs cgroups vs ??? This doesn't make any sense? It's like writing "network drivers vs. X11" in OpenBSD.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Fedora switched to Systemd in 2011. That's over 5 years?
  - hedora 3y ago
    Systemd has changed stuff continuously ever since. For instance, some systemd-login thing broke compatibility with xscreensaver on my manjaro box 6 months ago.
abwizz 3y ago
imho rhel is a close second, but bsd's being vastly less complex inherently means less assumptions and changes and more robustness

I don't think it's any more stable, dependable or predictable than any similarly mature Linux distro. It's just a preference, perhaps with a sliver of contrarianism.

hedora 3y ago

Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)? I never felt comfortable managing openbsd, but linux has repeatedly and gratuitously changed all the management tools, so now it’s easier for me to get around an openbsd box, despite using Linux daily, and openbsd maybe twice a year. (It’s a serious question. I’m strongly considering switching to one of the bsd’s at this point.)

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> Can you name any production-quality / daily-driver linux distros that have used the same network config, init, logging, etc for the last 5 years, let alone the last 3 decades (like the BSDs have)? Are you not so subtly referring to the systemd fiasco? That was about, if not over 10 years ago. I also don't think it matters. Change is not a bad thing, and that change is not as hectic or constant as you seem to imply. If you really want a Linux distro that hasn't changed at all in the past 30 years, Slackware might be your bets bet, but I don't think that 'having not changed in the past 30 years' really makes sense as a metric. Personally, I'm a fan of Alpine and Void Linux, and I also run NetBSD. FreeBSD seems too 'messy' as someone that likes minimalism, and OpenBSD's security focus is misplaced IMO.
- hedora 3y ago
  It’s not just systemd. Wayland broke the world. ifconfig doesn’t work anymore. File permissions don’t reliably work thanks to acls. There’s also the selinux vs cgroups vs ???, etc, etc.
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    ifconfig got replaced just as OpenBSD's pf replaced whatever it replaced. Wayland, ACLs, SELinux and cgroup are all just options, none are forced.
  - throwaway7356 3y ago
    > ifconfig Was deprecated ~20 years ago. Not a recent change. > selinux vs cgroups vs ??? This doesn't make any sense? It's like writing "network drivers vs. X11" in OpenBSD.
happymellon 3y ago
Fedora switched to Systemd in 2011. That's over 5 years?
- hedora 3y ago
  Systemd has changed stuff continuously ever since. For instance, some systemd-login thing broke compatibility with xscreensaver on my manjaro box 6 months ago.

abwizz 3y ago

imho rhel is a close second, but bsd's being vastly less complex inherently means less assumptions and changes and more robustness