4 ms·

0 expectation of privacy at an international border. This has been the law since King Narmer and should surprise no one.

gottorf 3y ago
That doesn't mean any and all treatment at a border crossing is legal. Would you not object to an anal probe administered by CBP?
- tiahura 3y ago
  I wasn’t giving my opinion. IAAL, I was giving you the law.
  - wolfram74 3y ago
    And the general thrust of pointing out things like this is to discuss whether or not the law is wrong. As laws are made and enforced by societies, it is entirely possible that they might need to be changed by those same societies as their needs and ethical standards change.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Y_Y 3y ago
  And would they object if I insisted on one, being in the "border zone"? This has to be a two-way street.
nickthegreek 3y ago
They define the border as 100 miles. Do you think that is reasonable?
- tiahura 3y ago
  Me personally, 100 miles, probably not - most of the time. In Criminal Procedure, many law professors skip this section of the book (a bunch of drug cases) and summarize the caselaw with “you have no rights at the border.”
  - hedora 3y ago
    66% of the US population lives "at the border", and what do drug cases have to do with any of this?
    - throwaway17_17 3y ago
      Most of the precedent cases in this area are drug prosecutions typically involving over-border smuggling.
- solveit 3y ago
  And this includes the coast. NYC, SF, LA, DC etc are all within the border zone.
  - addandsubtract 3y ago
    Also international airports
xen2xen1 3y ago
But the amount of information on you they can get from your phone expands significantly every year. The founding fathers defined search and seizure as your house, which had your papers, banking documents, money, now all that is online and viewable with a fingerprint anywhere you are.
olliej 3y ago
Where do you live in the US? If you are within 100 miles of a coast or border, you're "at the border" and these rulings apply. 2/3rds of the US is at such a border, and thus any CBP officer can perform a warrantless search of anyone without even the suggestion of any kind of probable cause. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen police report anyone suspicious to the CBP in the knowledge that that gives them a direct bypass for any illegal search they want.
Zetice 3y ago
Presuming King Narmer is an old guy, it was probably also true that slavery has been the paw for nearly all of the time since his rule. Doesn’t make it right.
monksy 3y ago
Doesn't that mean that a border is at DEN, ORD, etc?
dghlsakjg 3y ago
Can information collected at the border in an otherwise unconstitutional manner be used against you for anything except admission purposes? In other words, would a judge accept evidence seized at the border in a case not about border law?

gottorf 3y ago

That doesn't mean any and all treatment at a border crossing is legal. Would you not object to an anal probe administered by CBP?

tiahura 3y ago
I wasn’t giving my opinion. IAAL, I was giving you the law.
- wolfram74 3y ago
  And the general thrust of pointing out things like this is to discuss whether or not the law is wrong. As laws are made and enforced by societies, it is entirely possible that they might need to be changed by those same societies as their needs and ethical standards change.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Y_Y 3y ago
And would they object if I insisted on one, being in the "border zone"? This has to be a two-way street.

nickthegreek 3y ago

They define the border as 100 miles. Do you think that is reasonable?

tiahura 3y ago
Me personally, 100 miles, probably not - most of the time. In Criminal Procedure, many law professors skip this section of the book (a bunch of drug cases) and summarize the caselaw with “you have no rights at the border.”
- hedora 3y ago
  66% of the US population lives "at the border", and what do drug cases have to do with any of this?
  - throwaway17_17 3y ago
    Most of the precedent cases in this area are drug prosecutions typically involving over-border smuggling.
solveit 3y ago
And this includes the coast. NYC, SF, LA, DC etc are all within the border zone.
- addandsubtract 3y ago
  Also international airports

xen2xen1 3y ago

But the amount of information on you they can get from your phone expands significantly every year. The founding fathers defined search and seizure as your house, which had your papers, banking documents, money, now all that is online and viewable with a fingerprint anywhere you are.

olliej 3y ago

Where do you live in the US? If you are within 100 miles of a coast or border, you're "at the border" and these rulings apply. 2/3rds of the US is at such a border, and thus any CBP officer can perform a warrantless search of anyone without even the suggestion of any kind of probable cause. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen police report anyone suspicious to the CBP in the knowledge that that gives them a direct bypass for any illegal search they want.

Zetice 3y ago

Presuming King Narmer is an old guy, it was probably also true that slavery has been the paw for nearly all of the time since his rule. Doesn’t make it right.

monksy 3y ago

Doesn't that mean that a border is at DEN, ORD, etc?

dghlsakjg 3y ago

Can information collected at the border in an otherwise unconstitutional manner be used against you for anything except admission purposes? In other words, would a judge accept evidence seized at the border in a case not about border law?