5 ms·

On a related note, today’s paper straws are apparently covered in PFAS, even though paper straws existed way before plastic was commonly used. I assume you cou

by hedora 3y ago

On a related note, today’s paper straws are apparently covered in PFAS, even though paper straws existed way before plastic was commonly used. I assume you could just coat the straw in food grade wax, but for some reason that’s not commonly done.

dylan604 3y ago
I can only imagine food grade wax being way more expensive than PFAS type chemicals. Probably easier to apply as well. Just thinking of all the "reasons" companies would state as to why they justify poisoning us all.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  PFAS will potentially put 3M out of business just like talcum powder did to J&J.
  - WJW 3y ago
    J&J still exists and will continue to exist though? They settled for some 9 billion, which is a lot but not enough to sink a company with a ~400 billion market cap.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      400 billion market cap companies do not usually have 400 billion in liquidity laying around. And after the first bankruptcy there may now well be a second: https://www.reuters.com/legal/jj-effort-resolve-talc-lawsuits-bankruptcy-fails-second-time-2023-07-28/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/jj-effort-resolve-talc-lawsuit...
      - WJW 3y ago
        As I understand it that link describes a plan to use the bankruptcy of a subsidiary (NOT the main company) as a way to resolve the court cases in one go. The subsidiary is funded with enough money to pay the expected settlements (with the parent company guaranteeing any shortfalls) and bankruptcy is used here as a legal tool rather than a "we are out of money" point. Matt Levine had a great section about this in his newsletter but I cannot find an un-paywalled link to that atm. It's the one from Jan 31 if you are subscribed. According to their latest annual report (https://www.investor.jnj.com/asm/2022-annual-report https://www.investor.jnj.com/asm/2022-annual-report, page 45), they had some 14.4 billion in "cash and cash equivalents" at the start of this year. Their net debt position was 16.1 billion on Jan 1 2023 (page 46 of the same report), up from 2.1 billion the year before due to an acquisition so there is likely quite some room to take on additional debt. Total net earnings for 2022 were just below 18 billion. Paying a 9 billion USD settlement will be painful for sure, but even double that would be just a single years' worth of profit. J&J is extremely likely to survive this problem IMO.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That subsidiary is just a legal trick. And this is exactly what J&J want you to believe. https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/10/20/the-texas-two-step-a-new-bankruptcy-strategy-to-avoid-corporate-liability https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/10/20/the-texas-two-step-a...
        WJW 3y ago
        > And this is exactly what J&J want you to believe. Do you mean that they lied in their annual report about their profits and/or their current cash on hand? Or that the total legal costs will be much higher than the 9 billion settlement agreement? Because I still don't see how a 9 billion settlement would bankrupt J&J, even if the subsidiary were to be reabsorbed into J&J tomorrow. They already set aside ~7 billion in Q1 2023 for this and have way deeper reserves available.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        The settlement is limited to those cases that have been brought and they're trying to plug that hole with legal tricks. But so far the judge isn't buying it which means the parent company will be liable and if it is found to be liable after all you can count on many thousands more lawsuits. It will also remove the cap on settlements. You can expect J&J to take a massive hit on account of that, possibly more than the market will bear. Keep in mind during all of this that in order to fail as a commercial entity all that needs to happen is that you are momentarily out of cash. The vultures will swoop in right away to dismember the corpse looking for bargains.
bertil 3y ago
My understanding is that all the covers of fast food (fries holder, hamburger wrapper, inside of paper soda cup) are also covered in PFAS — so far disposable coffee cups. Anything “paper” that is in contact with food, really. Except for the traditional British fish-and-chips newspaper, but that one should have traditional lead-based ink for flavour.

by hedora 3y ago

dylan604 3y ago

I can only imagine food grade wax being way more expensive than PFAS type chemicals. Probably easier to apply as well. Just thinking of all the "reasons" companies would state as to why they justify poisoning us all.

jacquesm 3y ago
PFAS will potentially put 3M out of business just like talcum powder did to J&J.
- WJW 3y ago
  J&J still exists and will continue to exist though? They settled for some 9 billion, which is a lot but not enough to sink a company with a ~400 billion market cap.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    400 billion market cap companies do not usually have 400 billion in liquidity laying around. And after the first bankruptcy there may now well be a second: https://www.reuters.com/legal/jj-effort-resolve-talc-lawsuits-bankruptcy-fails-second-time-2023-07-28/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/jj-effort-resolve-talc-lawsuit...
    - WJW 3y ago
      As I understand it that link describes a plan to use the bankruptcy of a subsidiary (NOT the main company) as a way to resolve the court cases in one go. The subsidiary is funded with enough money to pay the expected settlements (with the parent company guaranteeing any shortfalls) and bankruptcy is used here as a legal tool rather than a "we are out of money" point. Matt Levine had a great section about this in his newsletter but I cannot find an un-paywalled link to that atm. It's the one from Jan 31 if you are subscribed. According to their latest annual report (https://www.investor.jnj.com/asm/2022-annual-report https://www.investor.jnj.com/asm/2022-annual-report, page 45), they had some 14.4 billion in "cash and cash equivalents" at the start of this year. Their net debt position was 16.1 billion on Jan 1 2023 (page 46 of the same report), up from 2.1 billion the year before due to an acquisition so there is likely quite some room to take on additional debt. Total net earnings for 2022 were just below 18 billion. Paying a 9 billion USD settlement will be painful for sure, but even double that would be just a single years' worth of profit. J&J is extremely likely to survive this problem IMO.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        That subsidiary is just a legal trick. And this is exactly what J&J want you to believe. https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/10/20/the-texas-two-step-a-new-bankruptcy-strategy-to-avoid-corporate-liability https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/10/20/the-texas-two-step-a...
        WJW 3y ago
        > And this is exactly what J&J want you to believe. Do you mean that they lied in their annual report about their profits and/or their current cash on hand? Or that the total legal costs will be much higher than the 9 billion settlement agreement? Because I still don't see how a 9 billion settlement would bankrupt J&J, even if the subsidiary were to be reabsorbed into J&J tomorrow. They already set aside ~7 billion in Q1 2023 for this and have way deeper reserves available.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        The settlement is limited to those cases that have been brought and they're trying to plug that hole with legal tricks. But so far the judge isn't buying it which means the parent company will be liable and if it is found to be liable after all you can count on many thousands more lawsuits. It will also remove the cap on settlements. You can expect J&J to take a massive hit on account of that, possibly more than the market will bear. Keep in mind during all of this that in order to fail as a commercial entity all that needs to happen is that you are momentarily out of cash. The vultures will swoop in right away to dismember the corpse looking for bargains.

bertil 3y ago

My understanding is that all the covers of fast food (fries holder, hamburger wrapper, inside of paper soda cup) are also covered in PFAS — so far disposable coffee cups. Anything “paper” that is in contact with food, really. Except for the traditional British fish-and-chips newspaper, but that one should have traditional lead-based ink for flavour.