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See also Elementary OS and its Pantheon desktop environment.

actionfromafar 3y ago
Has ElementaryOS gotten their staff problems fixed yet? I’m also annoyed that they don’t go for Objective C which could make a lot of seasoned Apple developers comfortable, but instead went for a custom language.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  Then take a look at GnuStep or WindowMaker.
  - badsectoracula 3y ago
    Window Maker does not use GNUstep or Objective-C at all, it is all written in plain C. In fact the UI toolkit it uses (developed for Window Maker itself) is called "WINGs" for "WINGs Is Not GNUstep".
    - 29athrowaway 3y ago
      Probably it's time to rewrite WINGs in Swift.
- badsectoracula 3y ago
  > custom language Vala wasn't a custom language for elementaryOS, it already existed for years before the first version of the OS (and i think the first version didn't use any Vala code). It most likely used instead of Objective-C because its object system was built on top of glib's gobject system and elementaryOS used Gtk and a lot of other glib/gobject-based libraries. Using Objective-C would mean they'd have to base their UI on GNUstep and GNUstep wasn't as polished as Gtk. Remember that while they used macOS as an inspiration, it was never elementaryOS's goal to make a macOS clone.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Of course they could have used GTK from ObjectiveC, in fact it has been proposed.
    - badsectoracula 3y ago
      Of course they could have used Gtk from Objective-C, it is a C superset after all. However it'd be the same as using Gtk from C and the point of using Vala was to use a higher level language which understands the gobject object system and works with its memory management so they wont have to care about it. I have used Vala a bit some years ago to make a Gtk program and it was MUCH easier using it than using Gtk from C directly, so i can understand why they went with it.
NuSkooler 3y ago
A long while back there were efforts to port Pantheon to FreeBSD. IMO, a coordinated effort to get the graphical and UX experience on Linux or FreeBSD would be better than yet another one. I do wonder about eOS staff issues. It would be a shame to see that fall apart, I've been using it for years. Even so, someone picking up the torch as it were would be better than starting another.
jwells89 3y ago
ElementaryOS is very polished aesthetically and I love that they didn't jump aboard the "flat rectangles and monochrome icons" bandwagon like everybody else, but the way they went along with the various functionality-limiting GNOME conventions like replacing proper menubars with hamburger menus and hiding the minimize button is disappointing.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  Still better than GNOME
- rollcat 3y ago
  So much effort goes into badly cloning another desktop these days. I like macOS for the attention to detail, not for the rounded corners. I like X11 for the flexibility, not for the ability to poorly imitate another system. I will give credit to GNOME for trying to be their own thing, but it seems like they have no real vision, except trying to be "simpler" at all costs.

Has ElementaryOS gotten their staff problems fixed yet? I’m also annoyed that they don’t go for Objective C which could make a lot of seasoned Apple developers comfortable, but instead went for a custom language.

29athrowaway 3y ago
Then take a look at GnuStep or WindowMaker.
- badsectoracula 3y ago
  Window Maker does not use GNUstep or Objective-C at all, it is all written in plain C. In fact the UI toolkit it uses (developed for Window Maker itself) is called "WINGs" for "WINGs Is Not GNUstep".
  - 29athrowaway 3y ago
    Probably it's time to rewrite WINGs in Swift.
badsectoracula 3y ago
> custom language Vala wasn't a custom language for elementaryOS, it already existed for years before the first version of the OS (and i think the first version didn't use any Vala code). It most likely used instead of Objective-C because its object system was built on top of glib's gobject system and elementaryOS used Gtk and a lot of other glib/gobject-based libraries. Using Objective-C would mean they'd have to base their UI on GNUstep and GNUstep wasn't as polished as Gtk. Remember that while they used macOS as an inspiration, it was never elementaryOS's goal to make a macOS clone.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  Of course they could have used GTK from ObjectiveC, in fact it has been proposed.
  - badsectoracula 3y ago
    Of course they could have used Gtk from Objective-C, it is a C superset after all. However it'd be the same as using Gtk from C and the point of using Vala was to use a higher level language which understands the gobject object system and works with its memory management so they wont have to care about it. I have used Vala a bit some years ago to make a Gtk program and it was MUCH easier using it than using Gtk from C directly, so i can understand why they went with it.

NuSkooler 3y ago

A long while back there were efforts to port Pantheon to FreeBSD. IMO, a coordinated effort to get the graphical and UX experience on Linux or FreeBSD would be better than yet another one. I do wonder about eOS staff issues. It would be a shame to see that fall apart, I've been using it for years. Even so, someone picking up the torch as it were would be better than starting another.

jwells89 3y ago

ElementaryOS is very polished aesthetically and I love that they didn't jump aboard the "flat rectangles and monochrome icons" bandwagon like everybody else, but the way they went along with the various functionality-limiting GNOME conventions like replacing proper menubars with hamburger menus and hiding the minimize button is disappointing.

29athrowaway 3y ago
Still better than GNOME
rollcat 3y ago
So much effort goes into badly cloning another desktop these days. I like macOS for the attention to detail, not for the rounded corners. I like X11 for the flexibility, not for the ability to poorly imitate another system. I will give credit to GNOME for trying to be their own thing, but it seems like they have no real vision, except trying to be "simpler" at all costs.