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They definitely changed one of the licenses, and in fact in the most brazen way possible -- they relicensed OpenSolaris to proprietary![0][1] Your point stands,

They definitely changed one of the licenses, and in fact in the most brazen way possible -- they relicensed OpenSolaris to proprietary![0][1] Your point stands, though: illumos very much outpaced and outlived it.[2] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpnncakrelk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpnncakrelk [2] http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2017/09/04/the-sudden-death-and-eternal-life-of-solaris/ http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2017/09/04/the-sudden-death-and-...

pxc 3y ago
I'm sure that was an especially painful change, being such a gratuitously stingy and shortsighted treatment of a dear and painstakingly refined core technology project. My point with that observation about licensing was just that in many cases, it didn't even take something as drastic as a license change to get a project superseded by a community fork. Just changing the release process or removing some community maintainers' commit bits or whatever could be enough. Maybe some of that was because seeing what was done to OpenSolaris made everyone else ready to jump right away as soon as they saw any shift at all in other projects, though.
- bcantrill 3y ago
  Totally agreed -- and thank you for bringing up Hudson, which I have been concerned is being broadly forgotten!
  - rbanffy 3y ago
    I prefer to focus my imagination on picturing how angry Larry must have felt after becoming the owner of MySQL and learning that, even after spending a couple bullions on it, he still couldn't kill the thing. And I always forget Hudson's name, but not the product.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      > I prefer to focus my imagination on picturing how angry Larry must have felt No no no, didn't you watch the video? Don't anthropomorphize Larry Ellison! Lawnmower can't feel angry! :)
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    This mention of Hudson was a blast from the past! I honestly couldn't remember whether Hudson sprang from Jenkins and failed to gain mindshare or whether Jenkins sprang from Hudson and took all the mindshare. We used both of these on a project I working on from '08 to '13, and I guess we must have started out on Hudson and then migrated to Jenkins. So you're right to be concerned about peoples' memories fading! (I honestly thought both projects worked very poorly, but also better than anything else we could find at the time.)
    - pxc 3y ago
      > (I honestly thought both projects worked very poorly, but also better than anything else we could find at the time.) Each of us must first earn the right to forget Hudson by finally decommissioning our respective companies' remaining, bespoke, janky Jenkins server. ;)
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        hahaha I took the coward's way out and left that company a decade ago. When I met with an old colleague last year, they were still on that bespoke, janky Jenkins server.
eYrKEC2 3y ago
First time caller, long time listener: You have a blog too! Hurrah! I celebrate your entire catalog. If you start another podcast, please be sure to mention it on oxide and friends. It was crickets over there in the "On the Metal" podcast, but when you guys made that last episode I had 2 years of oxide & friends, so perhaps that was ok.
- bcantrill 3y ago
  Definitely no third podcast in our future! Oxide and Friends itself wasn't even all that deliberate -- it was very much an artifact of the pandemic[0]. Glad you found Oxide and Friends, and sorry it took us so long to record an On the Metal episode to point to it... [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qiDhlFVCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qiDhlFVCE

pxc 3y ago

I'm sure that was an especially painful change, being such a gratuitously stingy and shortsighted treatment of a dear and painstakingly refined core technology project. My point with that observation about licensing was just that in many cases, it didn't even take something as drastic as a license change to get a project superseded by a community fork. Just changing the release process or removing some community maintainers' commit bits or whatever could be enough. Maybe some of that was because seeing what was done to OpenSolaris made everyone else ready to jump right away as soon as they saw any shift at all in other projects, though.

bcantrill 3y ago
Totally agreed -- and thank you for bringing up Hudson, which I have been concerned is being broadly forgotten!
- rbanffy 3y ago
  I prefer to focus my imagination on picturing how angry Larry must have felt after becoming the owner of MySQL and learning that, even after spending a couple bullions on it, he still couldn't kill the thing. And I always forget Hudson's name, but not the product.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    > I prefer to focus my imagination on picturing how angry Larry must have felt No no no, didn't you watch the video? Don't anthropomorphize Larry Ellison! Lawnmower can't feel angry! :)
- sanderjd 3y ago
  This mention of Hudson was a blast from the past! I honestly couldn't remember whether Hudson sprang from Jenkins and failed to gain mindshare or whether Jenkins sprang from Hudson and took all the mindshare. We used both of these on a project I working on from '08 to '13, and I guess we must have started out on Hudson and then migrated to Jenkins. So you're right to be concerned about peoples' memories fading! (I honestly thought both projects worked very poorly, but also better than anything else we could find at the time.)
  - pxc 3y ago
    > (I honestly thought both projects worked very poorly, but also better than anything else we could find at the time.) Each of us must first earn the right to forget Hudson by finally decommissioning our respective companies' remaining, bespoke, janky Jenkins server. ;)
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      hahaha I took the coward's way out and left that company a decade ago. When I met with an old colleague last year, they were still on that bespoke, janky Jenkins server.

eYrKEC2 3y ago

First time caller, long time listener: You have a blog too! Hurrah! I celebrate your entire catalog. If you start another podcast, please be sure to mention it on oxide and friends. It was crickets over there in the "On the Metal" podcast, but when you guys made that last episode I had 2 years of oxide & friends, so perhaps that was ok.

bcantrill 3y ago
Definitely no third podcast in our future! Oxide and Friends itself wasn't even all that deliberate -- it was very much an artifact of the pandemic[0]. Glad you found Oxide and Friends, and sorry it took us so long to record an On the Metal episode to point to it... [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qiDhlFVCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qiDhlFVCE