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The EU's war is on US companies. They wouldn't be playing fast and loose with these regulations if their home born companies were the ones getting disadvantaged

The EU's war is on US companies. They wouldn't be playing fast and loose with these regulations if their home born companies were the ones getting disadvantaged. They push draconian surveillance laws then claim sainthood when they go after Facebook. I guess you can hate Facebook et al and welcome this stuff but it's hard to deny how these laws are basically trade barriers aimed at the US tech industry.

JCWasmx86 3y ago
No, you just have to follow the regulations. It's no "war on US companies" or anything like that. They wrote some good law (Albeit it has a few weaknesses), and enforce it now. And if you want to do business in the EU, you have to follow them. I would say it's more a problem of the US companies, if they can't do business without violating EU regulations.
- nceqs3 3y ago
  Have you read how vague the laws are. It's all designed to extract fines from US companies.
  - troupo 3y ago
    No. Its all designed against the predators that modern companies have become.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    The TL:DR of GDPR is "just don't drack your users without their consent". Why is that difficult for US corporations to follow? Even '90s web was by default GDPR complaint.
    - nceqs3 3y ago
      Yes, the huge and profitable 90s web.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        "Won't someone please think of the big-tech ad profits?" - You Why should the web's profitability or lack thereof, be my problem as a user? That the SV elite can't buy platinum plating on their yachts? Are they sharing that wealth with me? Then, good riddance! My privacy is more important than your wealth. There's been profitable SW companies and careers before user tracking became the norm. Remember when Windows came without any ads and blogs and forums had generic non-targeted ads? Same how the big tobacco industry got kneecapped for our own health and the greater good, a similar tech industry correction is long overdue. Is this the world you want for your kids?
      - bigbillheck 3y ago
        Plenty of people were making money off the internet in the 90s.
    - johndhi 3y ago
      I've implemented gdpr. It's much more than that.
      - bee_rider 3y ago
        How so?
      - esperent 3y ago
        I've also implemented GDPR. Of course it's complex, it's a continent wide law, how could it not be complicated? But I still think that "don't track your users without their informed consent" is a good summary of the intention of the law. And I would also say that's it's only really complex to implement if you were already tracking your users and now you need to change everything. If you weren't doing that, you'd probably find it remarkably easy to implement.
      - midasuni 3y ago
        Don’t set cookies. Don’t capture Personal data. You’re 90% there.
        cccbbbaaa 3y ago
        Oh, no, there's more. You must list all kinds of data processing you perform, find the appropriate legal basis (and data retention duration, etc.), make sure you only gather data you need (data minimization), know to who you transfer data, make your services secure by default, monitor for unauthorized access, and tell affected people when there is a breach. Perhaps make a risk assessment, but it depends on the processing you do. Yes, it's work. But quite frankly, I'm cool with a law that expects anyone who processes personal data to secure their service, to properly inform people, and holds them accountable.
        midasuni 3y ago
        So you are choosing to capture personal data.
        3y ago
- mrweasel 3y ago
  If we're being a bit generous it's easier for the EU to make these rules, because it has very little impact on it's own companies. The majority of the large companies being impacted by these laws are US based. Similarly you could argue that the companies are US based, simply because the US have pretty terrible privacy rules which makes it easy for them to get started with a fair amount of users/targets.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > you could argue that the companies are US based, simply because the US have pretty terrible privacy rules I do argue this. The state of privacy rules in the US is abominable.
pksebben 3y ago
Funny, then, how as a US citizen I'm all about this. I don't want to undermine Facebook's business model because I hate them. I hate them because they run on a business model I want undermined. There are real, present dangers to having your data hucked around like it's going out of style. <Tinfoil hat section> Let's also think for a second about the unprecedented level of propaganda and general bullshittery this stuff enables. The whole reason we're so desperately divided right now is because the marketing managers in politics have been able to see with fine-grit granularity what makes people tick, so they know precisely which buttons to push to start the next distraction/flamewar every time people start talking about dangerous topics like election reform, lobbying, and antitrust - all stuff that people on both sides of the aisle have no trouble getting behind. Quick, get em talking about guns and gays! </Tinfoil>
rank0 3y ago
I violently agree with you and am stunned at the amount of pro EU/anti US rhetoric on this forum. You make an excellent point about the EU surveillance laws. They clearly don’t give a shit about privacy. None of the folks disagreeing ITT seem to be willing to discuss that point. The EU spends more resources regulating US corporations than they do building their own. If they want to reverse course on their economic trajectory they’re gonna have to start competing in a genuine way.
- devjab 3y ago
  > You make an excellent point about the EU surveillance laws. They clearly don’t give a shit about privacy. None of the folks disagreeing ITT seem to be willing to discuss that point. You can be for privacy and against survailance. Often the politicians who work to implement data protection laws and politicians who work to increase survailance come from opposite sites of the political middle. So it's not really a very good point unless you can only deal in black and white. The EU can clearly be good on some areas and terrible on others. As it is with most things. Another example could be how the green party members of the EU are working toward clean energy while the conservative branch is working to increase the markets for fossil energy simultaneously. They do so by positioning them in the legalislative branches where they get the most influence acording to their political agenda, and while that may be "weird" to people from a "winner-takes-all" sort of system, it's how the vast majority of the EU democracies work.
  - rank0 3y ago
    > You can be for privacy and against survailance. Is this a typo? Of course you can they’re literally opposites. You’re performing mental gymnastics if you think that the EU is somehow “pro privacy” just because they created cookie banners via GDPR. State sponsored surveillance is FAR worse than corporate sponsored surveillance.
    - midasuni 3y ago
      The EU didn’t create those banners. HN doesn’t have such banners. The companies tried to track you created those banners.
devjab 3y ago
How do you come to that conclusion? These laws apply to all EU based companies while non-EU companies have the clear option to opt out of them, which many do. If you want to do business within the EU, then you need to respect citizen privacy. Though I do agree that they should eat their own medicine, but here in the EU, we do tend to view private corporations as less worthy of our data than our own governments. That being said. The branches that are working to secure citizen privacy and the branches that are working to ruin online encryption and monitor everything we do are often very sepperate parts of the government. So it's not exactly the same people.
- gtsop 3y ago
  1. The magnitute of effect these laws have on EU companies is miniscule compared to the effect on the US tech giants 2. The EU has no honest respect over the people's privacy as they fully surveil their citizens Thus it ia very safe to conclude that the EU pretends to care about people's privacy as an excuse to protect it's industry against the ultra-high yields of US tech companies
  - devjab 3y ago
    > 2. The EU has no honest respect over the people's privacy as they fully surveil their citizens What is your source for that? Because that would be illegal in most EU countries.
cccbbbaaa 3y ago
The EU is not an uniform entity. Yes, you have citizens who sue Facebook, but then you have some members of the commission that wants to ban E2E encryption; but then, you have other members that absolutely don't want that, and the EDPS reminding everyone that it's actually illegal.

JCWasmx86 3y ago

No, you just have to follow the regulations. It's no "war on US companies" or anything like that. They wrote some good law (Albeit it has a few weaknesses), and enforce it now. And if you want to do business in the EU, you have to follow them. I would say it's more a problem of the US companies, if they can't do business without violating EU regulations.

nceqs3 3y ago
Have you read how vague the laws are. It's all designed to extract fines from US companies.
- troupo 3y ago
  No. Its all designed against the predators that modern companies have become.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  The TL:DR of GDPR is "just don't drack your users without their consent". Why is that difficult for US corporations to follow? Even '90s web was by default GDPR complaint.
  - nceqs3 3y ago
    Yes, the huge and profitable 90s web.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      "Won't someone please think of the big-tech ad profits?" - You Why should the web's profitability or lack thereof, be my problem as a user? That the SV elite can't buy platinum plating on their yachts? Are they sharing that wealth with me? Then, good riddance! My privacy is more important than your wealth. There's been profitable SW companies and careers before user tracking became the norm. Remember when Windows came without any ads and blogs and forums had generic non-targeted ads? Same how the big tobacco industry got kneecapped for our own health and the greater good, a similar tech industry correction is long overdue. Is this the world you want for your kids?
    - bigbillheck 3y ago
      Plenty of people were making money off the internet in the 90s.
  - johndhi 3y ago
    I've implemented gdpr. It's much more than that.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      How so?
    - esperent 3y ago
      I've also implemented GDPR. Of course it's complex, it's a continent wide law, how could it not be complicated? But I still think that "don't track your users without their informed consent" is a good summary of the intention of the law. And I would also say that's it's only really complex to implement if you were already tracking your users and now you need to change everything. If you weren't doing that, you'd probably find it remarkably easy to implement.
    - midasuni 3y ago
      Don’t set cookies. Don’t capture Personal data. You’re 90% there.
      - cccbbbaaa 3y ago
        Oh, no, there's more. You must list all kinds of data processing you perform, find the appropriate legal basis (and data retention duration, etc.), make sure you only gather data you need (data minimization), know to who you transfer data, make your services secure by default, monitor for unauthorized access, and tell affected people when there is a breach. Perhaps make a risk assessment, but it depends on the processing you do. Yes, it's work. But quite frankly, I'm cool with a law that expects anyone who processes personal data to secure their service, to properly inform people, and holds them accountable.
        midasuni 3y ago
        So you are choosing to capture personal data.
        3y ago
mrweasel 3y ago
If we're being a bit generous it's easier for the EU to make these rules, because it has very little impact on it's own companies. The majority of the large companies being impacted by these laws are US based. Similarly you could argue that the companies are US based, simply because the US have pretty terrible privacy rules which makes it easy for them to get started with a fair amount of users/targets.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > you could argue that the companies are US based, simply because the US have pretty terrible privacy rules I do argue this. The state of privacy rules in the US is abominable.

pksebben 3y ago

Funny, then, how as a US citizen I'm all about this. I don't want to undermine Facebook's business model because I hate them. I hate them because they run on a business model I want undermined. There are real, present dangers to having your data hucked around like it's going out of style. <Tinfoil hat section> Let's also think for a second about the unprecedented level of propaganda and general bullshittery this stuff enables. The whole reason we're so desperately divided right now is because the marketing managers in politics have been able to see with fine-grit granularity what makes people tick, so they know precisely which buttons to push to start the next distraction/flamewar every time people start talking about dangerous topics like election reform, lobbying, and antitrust - all stuff that people on both sides of the aisle have no trouble getting behind. Quick, get em talking about guns and gays! </Tinfoil>

rank0 3y ago

I violently agree with you and am stunned at the amount of pro EU/anti US rhetoric on this forum. You make an excellent point about the EU surveillance laws. They clearly don’t give a shit about privacy. None of the folks disagreeing ITT seem to be willing to discuss that point. The EU spends more resources regulating US corporations than they do building their own. If they want to reverse course on their economic trajectory they’re gonna have to start competing in a genuine way.

devjab 3y ago
> You make an excellent point about the EU surveillance laws. They clearly don’t give a shit about privacy. None of the folks disagreeing ITT seem to be willing to discuss that point. You can be for privacy and against survailance. Often the politicians who work to implement data protection laws and politicians who work to increase survailance come from opposite sites of the political middle. So it's not really a very good point unless you can only deal in black and white. The EU can clearly be good on some areas and terrible on others. As it is with most things. Another example could be how the green party members of the EU are working toward clean energy while the conservative branch is working to increase the markets for fossil energy simultaneously. They do so by positioning them in the legalislative branches where they get the most influence acording to their political agenda, and while that may be "weird" to people from a "winner-takes-all" sort of system, it's how the vast majority of the EU democracies work.
- rank0 3y ago
  > You can be for privacy and against survailance. Is this a typo? Of course you can they’re literally opposites. You’re performing mental gymnastics if you think that the EU is somehow “pro privacy” just because they created cookie banners via GDPR. State sponsored surveillance is FAR worse than corporate sponsored surveillance.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    The EU didn’t create those banners. HN doesn’t have such banners. The companies tried to track you created those banners.

devjab 3y ago

How do you come to that conclusion? These laws apply to all EU based companies while non-EU companies have the clear option to opt out of them, which many do. If you want to do business within the EU, then you need to respect citizen privacy. Though I do agree that they should eat their own medicine, but here in the EU, we do tend to view private corporations as less worthy of our data than our own governments. That being said. The branches that are working to secure citizen privacy and the branches that are working to ruin online encryption and monitor everything we do are often very sepperate parts of the government. So it's not exactly the same people.

gtsop 3y ago
1. The magnitute of effect these laws have on EU companies is miniscule compared to the effect on the US tech giants 2. The EU has no honest respect over the people's privacy as they fully surveil their citizens Thus it ia very safe to conclude that the EU pretends to care about people's privacy as an excuse to protect it's industry against the ultra-high yields of US tech companies
- devjab 3y ago
  > 2. The EU has no honest respect over the people's privacy as they fully surveil their citizens What is your source for that? Because that would be illegal in most EU countries.

cccbbbaaa 3y ago

The EU is not an uniform entity. Yes, you have citizens who sue Facebook, but then you have some members of the commission that wants to ban E2E encryption; but then, you have other members that absolutely don't want that, and the EDPS reminding everyone that it's actually illegal.