6 ms·

> except the destruction of the entire eu online advertising industry Yes, but what are the negative effects?

seydor 3y ago
i mentioned the destruction of the eu advertising market. as a consequence tech in europe remains unfunded and therefore nonexistent (because the silicon valley machine literally runs on advertising money)
- mdhb 3y ago
  Almost like they are trying to find alternative funding models for the web here… I fail to see that as anything other than a positive.
  - seydor 3y ago
    hint: there aren't . the web is like all the media before it
    - tsimionescu 3y ago
      All the media that never tracked its users, yes.
      - seydor 3y ago
        people should remember that advertising was equally vilified at all times , whether it was on TV or print or radio. But at the time the EU was wise enough not to destroy its media economy. This time it's different
        simiones 3y ago
        Sure, and rightly so, but still there needs to be some limit to how much the advertising industry is permitted to do.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        Ok, but can you provide an actual argument explaining why advertising (in general) is a good thing for society and the economy? You've mentioned multiple times the "it's good at extracting huge sums of money out of people making decisions against their own interests, which goes on to fund other endeavors" argument, but I don't think that's a good thing on the whole. If you can forgive a huge exaggeration from my part, to me it sounds similar to saying that criminal activities are great because the money earned from those activities can go on to spur economic activity in the region (I'm not saying advertising is a criminal activity, but I think you get my point).
        ppsreejith 3y ago
        I wrote a reply but since it became too long, posted it as a comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37266563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37266563
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        That was an interesting comparison of behavioral vs non-behavioral ads, thanks. But my question was geared towards the value of advertising itself, in general (if there is any). I am aware of the unknown unknown problem you mentioned (I think), but in my experience as a layman, very very rarely (if ever) was I introduced to a great product or service through advertising that I wouldn't be aware of in other ways. Conversely, the amount of ads for substandard products and services (i.e. those which I know for sure there are better alternatives, at least for me and others around me) is infinitely greater. And I don't think it's just because the ads are not targeted enough. I'm pretty sure I am a hugely interesting target for many, many companies, but I am simply not interested in them (and never will) because other companies have much better products/services (many of which I already use). I am assuming, of course, that the only reason they're interested in targeting ads to me, is to influence me to make a buying decision that I wouldn't do otherwise, and not just because I wasn't aware of the product/service. Because if it wasn't for influencing me making a buying decision, why would they spend the money to show me an ad? That's why I always try to ignore (and block) ads as much as possible, even though that's not always possible (e.g. street ads). Yet, I am still being bombarded with non-stop ads and I have no question that I'm being negatively influenced by them, especially in those areas I know very little about (e.g. cleaning products) or am susceptible to being influenced against my own interests (e.g. fast food or other crappy, addictive food products). In my experience, the success rate of my own research (when looking for a product/service) or even word-of-mouth recommendations has far, far outweighed the success rate of all the ad campaigns I've ever been a target of, from my own perspective (not from the companies' perspectives, of course). So it's not that I don't see any value in advertising, which I don't (unless you're the advertiser), it's that I think it's actively damaging to society (due to leading people to make bad buying decisions) and the economy in general (due to increased inefficiency).
esafak 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HkASndEXo&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HkASndEXo&t=40s [SFW]
- someplaceguy 3y ago
  Huge fan. Thanks for reminding me :)
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  I immediately thought of Ali G, too. But please don’t post memes on HN, the community really doesn’t want that. (It is also worth pointing out that Ali G’s American drugs sketch simply used word-for-word the same jokes as the original sketch with a British policeman, and most fans regard the original British version as superior.)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

i mentioned the destruction of the eu advertising market. as a consequence tech in europe remains unfunded and therefore nonexistent (because the silicon valley machine literally runs on advertising money)

mdhb 3y ago
Almost like they are trying to find alternative funding models for the web here… I fail to see that as anything other than a positive.
- seydor 3y ago
  hint: there aren't . the web is like all the media before it
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    All the media that never tracked its users, yes.
    - seydor 3y ago
      people should remember that advertising was equally vilified at all times , whether it was on TV or print or radio. But at the time the EU was wise enough not to destroy its media economy. This time it's different
      - simiones 3y ago
        Sure, and rightly so, but still there needs to be some limit to how much the advertising industry is permitted to do.
      - someplaceguy 3y ago
        Ok, but can you provide an actual argument explaining why advertising (in general) is a good thing for society and the economy? You've mentioned multiple times the "it's good at extracting huge sums of money out of people making decisions against their own interests, which goes on to fund other endeavors" argument, but I don't think that's a good thing on the whole. If you can forgive a huge exaggeration from my part, to me it sounds similar to saying that criminal activities are great because the money earned from those activities can go on to spur economic activity in the region (I'm not saying advertising is a criminal activity, but I think you get my point).
        ppsreejith 3y ago
        I wrote a reply but since it became too long, posted it as a comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37266563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37266563
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        That was an interesting comparison of behavioral vs non-behavioral ads, thanks. But my question was geared towards the value of advertising itself, in general (if there is any). I am aware of the unknown unknown problem you mentioned (I think), but in my experience as a layman, very very rarely (if ever) was I introduced to a great product or service through advertising that I wouldn't be aware of in other ways. Conversely, the amount of ads for substandard products and services (i.e. those which I know for sure there are better alternatives, at least for me and others around me) is infinitely greater. And I don't think it's just because the ads are not targeted enough. I'm pretty sure I am a hugely interesting target for many, many companies, but I am simply not interested in them (and never will) because other companies have much better products/services (many of which I already use). I am assuming, of course, that the only reason they're interested in targeting ads to me, is to influence me to make a buying decision that I wouldn't do otherwise, and not just because I wasn't aware of the product/service. Because if it wasn't for influencing me making a buying decision, why would they spend the money to show me an ad? That's why I always try to ignore (and block) ads as much as possible, even though that's not always possible (e.g. street ads). Yet, I am still being bombarded with non-stop ads and I have no question that I'm being negatively influenced by them, especially in those areas I know very little about (e.g. cleaning products) or am susceptible to being influenced against my own interests (e.g. fast food or other crappy, addictive food products). In my experience, the success rate of my own research (when looking for a product/service) or even word-of-mouth recommendations has far, far outweighed the success rate of all the ad campaigns I've ever been a target of, from my own perspective (not from the companies' perspectives, of course). So it's not that I don't see any value in advertising, which I don't (unless you're the advertiser), it's that I think it's actively damaging to society (due to leading people to make bad buying decisions) and the economy in general (due to increased inefficiency).

esafak 3y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HkASndEXo&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HkASndEXo&t=40s [SFW]

someplaceguy 3y ago
Huge fan. Thanks for reminding me :)
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
I immediately thought of Ali G, too. But please don’t post memes on HN, the community really doesn’t want that. (It is also worth pointing out that Ali G’s American drugs sketch simply used word-for-word the same jokes as the original sketch with a British policeman, and most fans regard the original British version as superior.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]