5 ms·

It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Has

It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Hashicorp actually had working on it.

fishnchips 3y ago
Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative I'm not sure. They voluntarily exchanged the throne of a benevolent ruler for an audience seat where they're one of many. I would personally think that this privileged position was worth more than the cost of the FTEs devoted to the project. But obviously I don't see the whole picture.
- lamontcg 3y ago
  Its certainly going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out.
eropple 3y ago
How did Hashicorp "take the right approach"? They wanted $$money$$, they didn't want Terraform to be bigger or better or to cede control of it to anyone else. Having seen Spacelift, Pulumi, etc. over the last few years, I have little trouble envisioning them jumping to help with some alacrity if a Hashicorp that did want improvements did the work to move it to a software foundation themselves. But again: $$money$$.
- alex_lav 3y ago
  > They wanted $$money$$ Did this forum forget why for-profit companies exist recently?
  - eropple 3y ago
    There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". If you fire on the ecosystem, sometimes (not often enough, but sometimes) the ecosystem fires back.
    - alex_lav 3y ago
      > There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". I feel like this post suggests a misunderstanding about how publicly traded, for profit companies work. Because it is literally their job to capture the entire thing and whatever else they can capture. That's why going public is not awesome for FOSS-oriented companies. We've been here before.
      - eropple 3y ago
        I mean, I understand it quite well. Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. Like, the very concept of a corporation is ordained by a society to provide benefit to the society, not (just) to the shareholders--otherwise there's no reason to enable its creation. Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? I feel it is not unreasonable to simultaneously think that making some money in a sustainable fashion is a good thing--and at the same time also think that there is real value in expecting a functional moralism out of what are legally persons. I do realize that that is out of step with current (American) jurisprudence, but I also don't much care about that.
        alex_lav 3y ago
        > Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. I've not commented on whether it's good or bad. I'm commenting about the apparent surprise at their behavior. > Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? The latter, as is their job.
        eropple 3y ago
        > I've not commented on whether it's good or bad. I'm commenting about the apparent surprise at their behavior. I assure you that I am not surprised. I am angry, though.
      - 3y ago
  - pxc 3y ago
    When I read '$$money$$' I picture a cartoon character who starts excitedly staring at something with dollar signs in their eyeballs before embarking on some harebrained scheme. I don't think it's supposed to indicate that profit seeking is somehow bad or unnatural for companies to pursue, but that Hashicorp got caught up in something foolish and shortsighted because of some excessive eagerness and carelessness.
- fishnchips 3y ago
  100%. At Spacelift we have no beef with HashiCorp, and on a personal level many of us (me being the chief fanboy) admire their earlier work. We reached out to try and work together but the answer was a clear "no".

It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Hashicorp actually had working on it.

fishnchips 3y ago

Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative I'm not sure. They voluntarily exchanged the throne of a benevolent ruler for an audience seat where they're one of many. I would personally think that this privileged position was worth more than the cost of the FTEs devoted to the project. But obviously I don't see the whole picture.

lamontcg 3y ago
Its certainly going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out.

eropple 3y ago

How did Hashicorp "take the right approach"? They wanted $$money$$, they didn't want Terraform to be bigger or better or to cede control of it to anyone else. Having seen Spacelift, Pulumi, etc. over the last few years, I have little trouble envisioning them jumping to help with some alacrity if a Hashicorp that did want improvements did the work to move it to a software foundation themselves. But again: $$money$$.

alex_lav 3y ago
> They wanted $$money$$ Did this forum forget why for-profit companies exist recently?
- eropple 3y ago
  There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". If you fire on the ecosystem, sometimes (not often enough, but sometimes) the ecosystem fires back.
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    > There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". I feel like this post suggests a misunderstanding about how publicly traded, for profit companies work. Because it is literally their job to capture the entire thing and whatever else they can capture. That's why going public is not awesome for FOSS-oriented companies. We've been here before.
    - eropple 3y ago
      I mean, I understand it quite well. Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. Like, the very concept of a corporation is ordained by a society to provide benefit to the society, not (just) to the shareholders--otherwise there's no reason to enable its creation. Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? I feel it is not unreasonable to simultaneously think that making some money in a sustainable fashion is a good thing--and at the same time also think that there is real value in expecting a functional moralism out of what are legally persons. I do realize that that is out of step with current (American) jurisprudence, but I also don't much care about that.
      - alex_lav 3y ago
        > Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. I've not commented on whether it's good or bad. I'm commenting about the apparent surprise at their behavior. > Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? The latter, as is their job.
        eropple 3y ago
        > I've not commented on whether it's good or bad. I'm commenting about the apparent surprise at their behavior. I assure you that I am not surprised. I am angry, though.
    - 3y ago
- pxc 3y ago
  When I read '$$money$$' I picture a cartoon character who starts excitedly staring at something with dollar signs in their eyeballs before embarking on some harebrained scheme. I don't think it's supposed to indicate that profit seeking is somehow bad or unnatural for companies to pursue, but that Hashicorp got caught up in something foolish and shortsighted because of some excessive eagerness and carelessness.
fishnchips 3y ago
100%. At Spacelift we have no beef with HashiCorp, and on a personal level many of us (me being the chief fanboy) admire their earlier work. We reached out to try and work together but the answer was a clear "no".