4 ms·

I wonder how long until Hashicorp starts to use OpenTF as the upstream for TFE

by halifaxbeard 3y ago

re-thc 3y ago
Right, suddenly someone's doing the work for them and for "free".
- halifaxbeard 3y ago
  It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Hashicorp actually had working on it.
  - fishnchips 3y ago
    Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative I'm not sure. They voluntarily exchanged the throne of a benevolent ruler for an audience seat where they're one of many. I would personally think that this privileged position was worth more than the cost of the FTEs devoted to the project. But obviously I don't see the whole picture.
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      Its certainly going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out.
  - eropple 3y ago
    How did Hashicorp "take the right approach"? They wanted $$money$$, they didn't want Terraform to be bigger or better or to cede control of it to anyone else. Having seen Spacelift, Pulumi, etc. over the last few years, I have little trouble envisioning them jumping to help with some alacrity if a Hashicorp that did want improvements did the work to move it to a software foundation themselves. But again: $$money$$.
    - alex_lav 3y ago
      > They wanted $$money$$ Did this forum forget why for-profit companies exist recently?
      - eropple 3y ago
        There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". If you fire on the ecosystem, sometimes (not often enough, but sometimes) the ecosystem fires back.
        alex_lav 3y ago
        > There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". I feel like this post suggests a misunderstanding about how publicly traded, for profit companies work. Because it is literally their job to capture the entire thing and whatever else they can capture. That's why going public is not awesome for FOSS-oriented companies. We've been here before.
        eropple 3y ago
        I mean, I understand it quite well. Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. Like, the very concept of a corporation is ordained by a society to provide benefit to the society, not (just) to the shareholders--otherwise there's no reason to enable its creation. Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? I feel it is not unreasonable to simultaneously think that making some money in a sustainable fashion is a good thing--and at the same time also think that there is real value in expecting a functional moralism out of what are legally persons. I do realize that that is out of step with current (American) jurisprudence, but I also don't much care about that.
        alex_lav 3y ago
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  Kind of like Hashicorp has done so far for everyone non-corporate.
fishnchips 3y ago
Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative As a long-term HashiCorp fanboy, and a true fan of the work of Mitchell this would be my dream come true, on a very personal level. It would also be a great day for the entire community.
candiddevmike 3y ago
I don't think there is a future for TFE in the face of OpenTF. It's a dumb Terraform runner, the competition has far more features and integrations with other tools. The BSL was HashiCorps way to curtail competitors and it has backfired spectacularly.
- ohad1282 3y ago
  Ohad co-founder of env0 here, early supporter in the OpenTF initiative. TFE and TFC have a future. Competition is good for everybody. It forces innovation. However, only OpenTF will make sure to properly differentiate between the OSS layer and the commercial layer.
  - candiddevmike 3y ago
    The competition is between real platform engineering tools like yours, spacelift, humanitec, morpheus, etc. Real innovation, not just running TF plan/apply.
    - fishnchips 3y ago
      To be fair, competition from us (Spacelift) and our other competitor friends had an extremely positive impact on TFC/TFE over the last two year or so.
yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Can they do that without reverting their own license back to MPL?

I wonder how long until Hashicorp starts to use OpenTF as the upstream for TFE

re-thc 3y ago

Right, suddenly someone's doing the work for them and for "free".

halifaxbeard 3y ago
It’s a traumatic birth for sure- but I think in the long run Hashicorp took the right approach. There’s already more FTE commitments from the community than Hashicorp actually had working on it.
- fishnchips 3y ago
  Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative I'm not sure. They voluntarily exchanged the throne of a benevolent ruler for an audience seat where they're one of many. I would personally think that this privileged position was worth more than the cost of the FTEs devoted to the project. But obviously I don't see the whole picture.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    Its certainly going to be interesting to watch how it all plays out.
- eropple 3y ago
  How did Hashicorp "take the right approach"? They wanted $$money$$, they didn't want Terraform to be bigger or better or to cede control of it to anyone else. Having seen Spacelift, Pulumi, etc. over the last few years, I have little trouble envisioning them jumping to help with some alacrity if a Hashicorp that did want improvements did the work to move it to a software foundation themselves. But again: $$money$$.
  - alex_lav 3y ago
    > They wanted $$money$$ Did this forum forget why for-profit companies exist recently?
    - eropple 3y ago
      There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". If you fire on the ecosystem, sometimes (not often enough, but sometimes) the ecosystem fires back.
      - alex_lav 3y ago
        > There is a difference between "making money" and "capturing the entire thing because our growth-addled brains cannot conceive of not allocating all of the money to us". I feel like this post suggests a misunderstanding about how publicly traded, for profit companies work. Because it is literally their job to capture the entire thing and whatever else they can capture. That's why going public is not awesome for FOSS-oriented companies. We've been here before.
        eropple 3y ago
        I mean, I understand it quite well. Through this understanding I am able to come to the conclusion that it bad. Like, the very concept of a corporation is ordained by a society to provide benefit to the society, not (just) to the shareholders--otherwise there's no reason to enable its creation. Did Hashicorp's action better the society that granted its charter, or attempt to (and hopefully fail to) better its P&L? I feel it is not unreasonable to simultaneously think that making some money in a sustainable fashion is a good thing--and at the same time also think that there is real value in expecting a functional moralism out of what are legally persons. I do realize that that is out of step with current (American) jurisprudence, but I also don't much care about that.
        alex_lav 3y ago
unethical_ban 3y ago
Kind of like Hashicorp has done so far for everyone non-corporate.

fishnchips 3y ago

Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift, one of the members of the OpenTF initiative As a long-term HashiCorp fanboy, and a true fan of the work of Mitchell this would be my dream come true, on a very personal level. It would also be a great day for the entire community.

candiddevmike 3y ago

I don't think there is a future for TFE in the face of OpenTF. It's a dumb Terraform runner, the competition has far more features and integrations with other tools. The BSL was HashiCorps way to curtail competitors and it has backfired spectacularly.

ohad1282 3y ago
Ohad co-founder of env0 here, early supporter in the OpenTF initiative. TFE and TFC have a future. Competition is good for everybody. It forces innovation. However, only OpenTF will make sure to properly differentiate between the OSS layer and the commercial layer.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  The competition is between real platform engineering tools like yours, spacelift, humanitec, morpheus, etc. Real innovation, not just running TF plan/apply.
  - fishnchips 3y ago
    To be fair, competition from us (Spacelift) and our other competitor friends had an extremely positive impact on TFC/TFE over the last two year or so.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

Can they do that without reverting their own license back to MPL?