3 ms·

I find it ironic that the "boot log" displays the text "Safari is teh new Internet Explorer", while it's one of the two final holdouts against Chrome's complete

I find it ironic that the "boot log" displays the text "Safari is teh new Internet Explorer", while it's one of the two final holdouts against Chrome's complete and undivided domination, as Google is trying to force WEI down our throats. The open web is dying, and it's those messages that are killing it.

jchw 3y ago
I hate this logic. Neither Safari nor Chrome are good for the open web, Google being worse than Apple does not make Apple some kind of hero. As far as WEI goes, I certainly do not expect Apple to save us considering they've already been happy to implement remote attestation in their platforms and of course, in Safari, in the form of PATs. Meanwhile, Safari lags on web standards that are actually good, (while still implementing remote attestation in their browsers,) forcing you to test all of your stuff on Safari. I never have to test my stuff on Chrome, because well, Chrome implements every standard I care about that Firefox implements. But with Safari, I never know. I'm the resident troubleshooting guy for a bunch of people, and it's difficult to express the confusion and anger I get when I have to explain to people that yes, Safari on iOS really, truly still doesn't support WebM or Opus fully. Some people (insanely, imo) believe WebM is somehow evil, but I would love to hear why Opus is evil. What Google and Chrome are today is vastly different and far worse (IMO) than what Microsoft and Internet Explorer were for the web and internet. Microsoft was also bad for the open web, but they couldn't dream of something as devious as WEI; the technology wasn't even there yet. Meanwhile, Safari is basically hated for the same reasons as IE: You have to test with it to make sure things work (and of course that includes needing to own Apple products to even have the privilege of doing so...)
- rollcat 3y ago
  I'm not specifically defending Safari, it has many other problems (speaking both from user and developer POV). But I'm realistically looking back at that battlefield, and weep the loss of Presto, EdgeHTML, KHTML, the stillborn Servo, the irrelevant "other" WebKit browsers... Meanwhile the corpus of standards keeps growing to ensure no other player can hope to enter this space and remain competitive. My problem very specifically is with this messaging: "use Chrome". I mentioned WEI not because remote attestation is evil, but because Google (in this case and in many others) ignored the process, and declared itself the law.
- biccsdev 3y ago
  just use brave man
  - rollcat 3y ago
    There are three web browser engines, and Brave isn't the upstream for any one of them.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Brave isn't without sins either, particularly around crypto, their ad and search arbitrage and the creator payment tokens. I'm not sure without a dutiful audit that I would trust any of that to be better. Simply, its trading one set of issues for another.
    - vlod 3y ago
      Firefox is standing there, without a dance partner.
  - jchw 3y ago
    Brave is filled with features I do not want or care about and I do not trust it. I am perfectly content with LibreWolf, though I am happy to recommend Firefox to people, too, as for all of its misgivings, I still think it is one of the better options for casual users. That doesn't mean we're all good, though. Chrome has a lot of advantages by virtue of being a Google product, for casual users, like Chromecast support.

jchw 3y ago

I hate this logic. Neither Safari nor Chrome are good for the open web, Google being worse than Apple does not make Apple some kind of hero. As far as WEI goes, I certainly do not expect Apple to save us considering they've already been happy to implement remote attestation in their platforms and of course, in Safari, in the form of PATs. Meanwhile, Safari lags on web standards that are actually good, (while still implementing remote attestation in their browsers,) forcing you to test all of your stuff on Safari. I never have to test my stuff on Chrome, because well, Chrome implements every standard I care about that Firefox implements. But with Safari, I never know. I'm the resident troubleshooting guy for a bunch of people, and it's difficult to express the confusion and anger I get when I have to explain to people that yes, Safari on iOS really, truly still doesn't support WebM or Opus fully. Some people (insanely, imo) believe WebM is somehow evil, but I would love to hear why Opus is evil. What Google and Chrome are today is vastly different and far worse (IMO) than what Microsoft and Internet Explorer were for the web and internet. Microsoft was also bad for the open web, but they couldn't dream of something as devious as WEI; the technology wasn't even there yet. Meanwhile, Safari is basically hated for the same reasons as IE: You have to test with it to make sure things work (and of course that includes needing to own Apple products to even have the privilege of doing so...)

rollcat 3y ago
I'm not specifically defending Safari, it has many other problems (speaking both from user and developer POV). But I'm realistically looking back at that battlefield, and weep the loss of Presto, EdgeHTML, KHTML, the stillborn Servo, the irrelevant "other" WebKit browsers... Meanwhile the corpus of standards keeps growing to ensure no other player can hope to enter this space and remain competitive. My problem very specifically is with this messaging: "use Chrome". I mentioned WEI not because remote attestation is evil, but because Google (in this case and in many others) ignored the process, and declared itself the law.
biccsdev 3y ago
just use brave man
- rollcat 3y ago
  There are three web browser engines, and Brave isn't the upstream for any one of them.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Brave isn't without sins either, particularly around crypto, their ad and search arbitrage and the creator payment tokens. I'm not sure without a dutiful audit that I would trust any of that to be better. Simply, its trading one set of issues for another.
  - vlod 3y ago
    Firefox is standing there, without a dance partner.
- jchw 3y ago
  Brave is filled with features I do not want or care about and I do not trust it. I am perfectly content with LibreWolf, though I am happy to recommend Firefox to people, too, as for all of its misgivings, I still think it is one of the better options for casual users. That doesn't mean we're all good, though. Chrome has a lot of advantages by virtue of being a Google product, for casual users, like Chromecast support.