4 ms·

My gf and I were accidentally in a crowd that was kettled in London's Occupy protests quite a few years ago. Facing a line of masked police with riot shields wa

My gf and I were accidentally in a crowd that was kettled in London's Occupy protests quite a few years ago. Facing a line of masked police with riot shields was an extremely intimidating experience, even though it only lasted twenty minutes or so before they started letting people out through a gap. Maybe the intimidating effect would have diminished over time, and maybe if we were actually protesters we would have been amped up and fortified by numbers but it was interesting to note my immediate panic and helplessness!

prennert 3y ago
Just worth keeping in mind that the UK police is about the softest there is in terms of crowd control. No guns, no gas, I don't think they have used a water canon yet. They do have horses though which are scary AF. Once you got a panicked horse playing rodeo with it's rider while chasing you through an alley, you know what immediate panic feels like. Edit: I found horses worse than the crowd panic, breathing and eye issues after CS gas was released. And despite water cannons engaging is a very dramatic moment, I cannot imagine how it must feel when police give warning shots or even fire live ammo into the crowd (even you don't get hurt). Musst be a completely different level. Luckily I have never been in a situation on which police was even near such an escalation.
- SEJeff 3y ago
  UK Police have batons, and they are trained to use them when necessary. Don't equivocate lack of lethal weapons with softness. They're not soft. Source: a coworker was on the police force for 10 years in London.
- dmurray 3y ago
  > the UK police is about the softest there is in terms of crowd control. No guns, no gas... The UK police forces literally invented rubber bullets, and used them very liberally, and lethally, against protestors in Northern Ireland [0]. Just because they go easy on some climate march you were at in London doesn't mean they never take it further. [0] https://rubberbullets.longlead.com/chapter/rubber-bullet-history-northern-ireland https://rubberbullets.longlead.com/chapter/rubber-bullet-his...
  - prennert 3y ago
    Oh, I had thought that the Northern Ireland conflict was mostly suppressed with the army. A quick skim through the article seems to attribute use of rubber bullets to military, too. But I have not read in detail, yet.
    - dmurray 3y ago
      This list [0] of 17 people killed with rubber or plastic bullets in NI gives 6 by police and 11 by the army. I'd assume it skews higher when looking at all shootings, not just fatal ones. [0] https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbullet.htm https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbulle...
hutzlibu 3y ago
Hehe, where I live in germany, there are regulary demonstrations and clashes between nazis, antifa and police. And I used to find it entertaining, to cycle around those areas, as a sort of a demo tourist (while keeping some distance). So I can say, most of it is just show (of force) and it is indeed all about intimitation (from police as well as protestors). So yes, suddenly being trapped inside and facing riot police can be scary. That's by design. But when you know the details, you can say quite easily, if there is any real danger of violence, or not. Usually it isn't. But violence can sometimes erupt spontaneously though, so be aware (and fast) if you are close. Also, if you are good with words and kettled in, usually you can convince the police that you are just a tourist passing through (don't ask those, who face the heat, go to the quiet corners and ask someone in charge who does not look stressed out, the low ranks won't let you through, if they have the order to block everyone and their superiors are watching, so rather ask those a little bit higher up, but not too high, or find someone who is not being watched)
- einpoklum 3y ago
  One of these days, the police will sic the Nazis on you, or the Nazis will sic the police on you, and then you might rethink whether it's really that entertaining.
  - SauciestGNU 3y ago
    I've demonstrated against Nazis countless times, and almost every single time the Nazis and police join forces to assault the protestors.
    - einpoklum 3y ago
      I remember being told more than a decade ago that the German police were unofficially more friendly to far-right/Nazi street activities than to those opposing them. I guess it's more out in the open now. Although it's probably also location-dependent.
      - SauciestGNU 3y ago

prennert 3y ago

Just worth keeping in mind that the UK police is about the softest there is in terms of crowd control. No guns, no gas, I don't think they have used a water canon yet. They do have horses though which are scary AF. Once you got a panicked horse playing rodeo with it's rider while chasing you through an alley, you know what immediate panic feels like. Edit: I found horses worse than the crowd panic, breathing and eye issues after CS gas was released. And despite water cannons engaging is a very dramatic moment, I cannot imagine how it must feel when police give warning shots or even fire live ammo into the crowd (even you don't get hurt). Musst be a completely different level. Luckily I have never been in a situation on which police was even near such an escalation.

SEJeff 3y ago
UK Police have batons, and they are trained to use them when necessary. Don't equivocate lack of lethal weapons with softness. They're not soft. Source: a coworker was on the police force for 10 years in London.
dmurray 3y ago
> the UK police is about the softest there is in terms of crowd control. No guns, no gas... The UK police forces literally invented rubber bullets, and used them very liberally, and lethally, against protestors in Northern Ireland [0]. Just because they go easy on some climate march you were at in London doesn't mean they never take it further. [0] https://rubberbullets.longlead.com/chapter/rubber-bullet-history-northern-ireland https://rubberbullets.longlead.com/chapter/rubber-bullet-his...
- prennert 3y ago
  Oh, I had thought that the Northern Ireland conflict was mostly suppressed with the army. A quick skim through the article seems to attribute use of rubber bullets to military, too. But I have not read in detail, yet.
  - dmurray 3y ago
    This list [0] of 17 people killed with rubber or plastic bullets in NI gives 6 by police and 11 by the army. I'd assume it skews higher when looking at all shootings, not just fatal ones. [0] https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbullet.htm https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbulle...

hutzlibu 3y ago

Hehe, where I live in germany, there are regulary demonstrations and clashes between nazis, antifa and police. And I used to find it entertaining, to cycle around those areas, as a sort of a demo tourist (while keeping some distance). So I can say, most of it is just show (of force) and it is indeed all about intimitation (from police as well as protestors). So yes, suddenly being trapped inside and facing riot police can be scary. That's by design. But when you know the details, you can say quite easily, if there is any real danger of violence, or not. Usually it isn't. But violence can sometimes erupt spontaneously though, so be aware (and fast) if you are close. Also, if you are good with words and kettled in, usually you can convince the police that you are just a tourist passing through (don't ask those, who face the heat, go to the quiet corners and ask someone in charge who does not look stressed out, the low ranks won't let you through, if they have the order to block everyone and their superiors are watching, so rather ask those a little bit higher up, but not too high, or find someone who is not being watched)

einpoklum 3y ago
One of these days, the police will sic the Nazis on you, or the Nazis will sic the police on you, and then you might rethink whether it's really that entertaining.
- SauciestGNU 3y ago
  I've demonstrated against Nazis countless times, and almost every single time the Nazis and police join forces to assault the protestors.
  - einpoklum 3y ago
    I remember being told more than a decade ago that the German police were unofficially more friendly to far-right/Nazi street activities than to those opposing them. I guess it's more out in the open now. Although it's probably also location-dependent.
    - SauciestGNU 3y ago