5 ms·

The only reason apple doesn't want to allow repairs is so they can sell more new ones. This "consistency from repair to repair" is largely a myth used to fool g

The only reason apple doesn't want to allow repairs is so they can sell more new ones. This "consistency from repair to repair" is largely a myth used to fool gullible consumers by playing on the assumption that apple actually has a competent repair wing. They do not, so this line of thinking that it's "third party repairs are a problem" is completely unfounded.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Retric 3y ago
Look at a market where repairs are normal. Car manufacturers get a reputation based on used vehicles not just new cars. High resale value translates into higher margins because higher trade in value means purchasers have more money for their next car. Similarly people who used to buy used cars will often move up to buying a new car when their economic situation improves, that makes used cars a valuable form of advertising. In that context Apple likely looks at the used market as quite valuable as long people still consider used iPhones as durable devices worth paying a premium for. They don’t need to sell you 1,000$ phones every year if you’re willing to buy a slightly used phone for 500$ someone else can more easily keep buying the next generation.
javajosh 3y ago
Apple's attitude about repair is a HUGE knock on the brand, at this point. There is no justification for it, apart from greed. Even if they are right and the repair isn't great, which does happen of course, a rational person will blame the repairer, not Apple. So for them to make these paternalistic claims is another HUGE knock on the brand - not only are they greedy, they lie to justify their greed. I don't care how good their products are (and the M1 based laptops are damn good) I'm not giving Apple a dime until this changes (and the batteries are no longer glued into everything).
- brookst 3y ago
  > a rational person will blame the repairer Why would someone selling a used device disclose that it was repaired for $15 at a flea market? Apple wants their devices to either work great, or not work at all. Sounds like it’s not a brand for you, which is fine. Plenty of other people are happy with the value prop, which is also fine.
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    Then Apple should lease and not sell phones. Once sold it is no longer theirs. The fact that our industry's security practices demand constant updates is a regulatory failure, not an inevitability.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      How do you think the anti-apple peanut gallery would respond to your market strategy?
- Haul4ss 3y ago
  > a rational person will blame the repairer, not Apple Assumes facts not in evidence. My experience has been people tend to blame the platform supplier first and foremost. 1990s OEM computer maker loads a bunch of crapware on your PC? You're likely to blame Microsoft Windows. SimCity doesn't run on Windows 95 because of a bug in SimCity? You're likely to blame Windows 95. Microsoft at least understood that dynamic. iPhone acting weird? Apple's fault, obviously, no questions asked. It's the default position of consumers. I agree with your assertion that this is a knock on the Apple brand for a certain subset of their audience. I don't think it matters to the lay user as much as it does to the power user.
  - dabraham1248 3y ago
    While I don't think that your conclusion is 100% wrong, your argument does not support it. The first two examples are actually the way I would bet. For the first, MS knew what was happening, and worked to make it easier. The computer manufacturers were the MS customers, not us. MS didn't do the actual loading, but they did point to how easy it was to load up, and say "Gee it would be terrible if you did this, this, and this, to load up the machine with profitable junk the user doesn't want.". For the second, MS had somewhere between zero and negative interest in non-MS software continuing to work. We have sworn statements in court that they actively worked to make sure that 1-2-3 wouldn't run. Your third is the statement you're trying to prove using the first two. Again, I don't _completely_ disagree with your third statement. But the first two do _not_ support it. Because I have known people to buy repaired cars and blame the manufacturer for issues that might be related to the repair, not the repair place. But usually IME when people buy a car out of warranty, that's been repaired a few times, they realize what they're getting into. For phones there would, at a minimum, be a few years for most people to adjust from "it's an iPhone, no one else even _can_ repair it" to "it's used, who knows what's inside anymore". But I'm willing to bet we'd get there. But it's just a gut feeling.
- tim333 3y ago
  I occasionally buy and repair used Apple phones and are more comfortable with them than other brands. Even though Apple may discourage it most phone repairers know them and can do repairs, probably more so than an old Huawei whatever it is. I was quite impressed when an iPhone 5 was reduced to a spread of components on the road in a Thai scooter accident and the shop had it back working same day.
- arein3 3y ago
  I'm not buying anything apple since I know repairability is zero. Now the laptops have soldered ram and ssd, and the screens are paired to the motherboard. Actually I started using linux for a few years, since macos started spying and sending telemetry about every move you make in the OS.
nomel 3y ago
> This "consistency from repair to repair" is largely a myth used to fool gullible consumers Components don't always fail in isolation. When they do, they can cause damage up/downstream, like if a cap shorts to ground. It's very hard to detect partial damage. That's what drives module level replacements.
audunw 3y ago
I think you have it completely backwards. Apple aren’t necessarily that concerned with selling the most phones. They want to sell the most expensive phones with the highest margins, and still sell quite a lot. How do you get people to pay a lot for a phone, and do so fairly often? By making sure they can sell their old phone for a decent prize. Everything Apple does is in support of this. That implies that they do want you to be able to repair your phone (otherwise you couldn’t sell it), but only if it’s in a way where the buyer of the phone can feel confident that the phone they buy isn’t going to die in a month due to a shoddy repair job. Apple providing OS updates to old phones also supports this (and it also helps them with App Store revenue). Apple doesn’t care if you sell or continue to use your old phone because in that segment they’re not competing with themselves. They’re competing with cheap android phones. IMO, Apple does more than anyone to make sure their phones are used as long as possible. Most android brands are far more likely to go in a drawer as it’s not worth the effort to sell it. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t do better. I think it’ll be a process between Apple, repair shops and regulators to come up with a compromise that benefits consumers even more… including those that buy second hand (possibly repaired) phones.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Retric 3y ago

Look at a market where repairs are normal. Car manufacturers get a reputation based on used vehicles not just new cars. High resale value translates into higher margins because higher trade in value means purchasers have more money for their next car. Similarly people who used to buy used cars will often move up to buying a new car when their economic situation improves, that makes used cars a valuable form of advertising. In that context Apple likely looks at the used market as quite valuable as long people still consider used iPhones as durable devices worth paying a premium for. They don’t need to sell you 1,000$ phones every year if you’re willing to buy a slightly used phone for 500$ someone else can more easily keep buying the next generation.

javajosh 3y ago

Apple's attitude about repair is a HUGE knock on the brand, at this point. There is no justification for it, apart from greed. Even if they are right and the repair isn't great, which does happen of course, a rational person will blame the repairer, not Apple. So for them to make these paternalistic claims is another HUGE knock on the brand - not only are they greedy, they lie to justify their greed. I don't care how good their products are (and the M1 based laptops are damn good) I'm not giving Apple a dime until this changes (and the batteries are no longer glued into everything).

brookst 3y ago
> a rational person will blame the repairer Why would someone selling a used device disclose that it was repaired for $15 at a flea market? Apple wants their devices to either work great, or not work at all. Sounds like it’s not a brand for you, which is fine. Plenty of other people are happy with the value prop, which is also fine.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Then Apple should lease and not sell phones. Once sold it is no longer theirs. The fact that our industry's security practices demand constant updates is a regulatory failure, not an inevitability.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    How do you think the anti-apple peanut gallery would respond to your market strategy?
Haul4ss 3y ago
> a rational person will blame the repairer, not Apple Assumes facts not in evidence. My experience has been people tend to blame the platform supplier first and foremost. 1990s OEM computer maker loads a bunch of crapware on your PC? You're likely to blame Microsoft Windows. SimCity doesn't run on Windows 95 because of a bug in SimCity? You're likely to blame Windows 95. Microsoft at least understood that dynamic. iPhone acting weird? Apple's fault, obviously, no questions asked. It's the default position of consumers. I agree with your assertion that this is a knock on the Apple brand for a certain subset of their audience. I don't think it matters to the lay user as much as it does to the power user.
- dabraham1248 3y ago
  While I don't think that your conclusion is 100% wrong, your argument does not support it. The first two examples are actually the way I would bet. For the first, MS knew what was happening, and worked to make it easier. The computer manufacturers were the MS customers, not us. MS didn't do the actual loading, but they did point to how easy it was to load up, and say "Gee it would be terrible if you did this, this, and this, to load up the machine with profitable junk the user doesn't want.". For the second, MS had somewhere between zero and negative interest in non-MS software continuing to work. We have sworn statements in court that they actively worked to make sure that 1-2-3 wouldn't run. Your third is the statement you're trying to prove using the first two. Again, I don't _completely_ disagree with your third statement. But the first two do _not_ support it. Because I have known people to buy repaired cars and blame the manufacturer for issues that might be related to the repair, not the repair place. But usually IME when people buy a car out of warranty, that's been repaired a few times, they realize what they're getting into. For phones there would, at a minimum, be a few years for most people to adjust from "it's an iPhone, no one else even _can_ repair it" to "it's used, who knows what's inside anymore". But I'm willing to bet we'd get there. But it's just a gut feeling.
tim333 3y ago
I occasionally buy and repair used Apple phones and are more comfortable with them than other brands. Even though Apple may discourage it most phone repairers know them and can do repairs, probably more so than an old Huawei whatever it is. I was quite impressed when an iPhone 5 was reduced to a spread of components on the road in a Thai scooter accident and the shop had it back working same day.
arein3 3y ago
I'm not buying anything apple since I know repairability is zero. Now the laptops have soldered ram and ssd, and the screens are paired to the motherboard. Actually I started using linux for a few years, since macos started spying and sending telemetry about every move you make in the OS.

nomel 3y ago

> This "consistency from repair to repair" is largely a myth used to fool gullible consumers Components don't always fail in isolation. When they do, they can cause damage up/downstream, like if a cap shorts to ground. It's very hard to detect partial damage. That's what drives module level replacements.

audunw 3y ago

I think you have it completely backwards. Apple aren’t necessarily that concerned with selling the most phones. They want to sell the most expensive phones with the highest margins, and still sell quite a lot. How do you get people to pay a lot for a phone, and do so fairly often? By making sure they can sell their old phone for a decent prize. Everything Apple does is in support of this. That implies that they do want you to be able to repair your phone (otherwise you couldn’t sell it), but only if it’s in a way where the buyer of the phone can feel confident that the phone they buy isn’t going to die in a month due to a shoddy repair job. Apple providing OS updates to old phones also supports this (and it also helps them with App Store revenue). Apple doesn’t care if you sell or continue to use your old phone because in that segment they’re not competing with themselves. They’re competing with cheap android phones. IMO, Apple does more than anyone to make sure their phones are used as long as possible. Most android brands are far more likely to go in a drawer as it’s not worth the effort to sell it. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t do better. I think it’ll be a process between Apple, repair shops and regulators to come up with a compromise that benefits consumers even more… including those that buy second hand (possibly repaired) phones.