5 ms·

In Poland it's quite common for people to just hand dig their wells, using concrete rings for the reinforcement of walls. It's legal up to 30 meters depth and u

In Poland it's quite common for people to just hand dig their wells, using concrete rings for the reinforcement of walls. It's legal up to 30 meters depth and up to 5 m^3/day water yield. Article (in Polish but there's pics): https://darmowyporadnik.pl/artykul/36/budownictwo/kopanie-studni-z-kregow-betonowych-metoda-gospodarcza.html https://darmowyporadnik.pl/artykul/36/budownictwo/kopanie-st... Edit: Or maybe I should say "it was" - most new wells are just a vertical steel pipe with a submerged electric pump rather than big concrete rings. These are obviously much more convenient and safer.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
With the recent legislation that every Polish village has to be connected to water and sewage even if the homeowner wanted to remain off-grid, I would expect not expect well-digging to remain popular.
- jcarrano 3y ago
  It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste to water the lawn with drinking water.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    It is not as common to water one’s lawn in Poland. It’s not like the country doesn’t get enough rain, and most villagers don’t feel the need to show off perfect lawns to their neighbors as e.g. in the USA.
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      Don’t water the lawn (or fertilise or roundup etc.) in Australia: for some reason it stays green without it: buffalo grass is as tough as nails! Sometimes it goes yellow but it always comes back!
      - moooo99 3y ago
        Lawns in the US consume as many resources as they do because the typical lawn you see isn't a species native to the US, instead it was imported from Europe. With the soil being different etc., it is not surprising lawns, especially when they're as big as in the US, require so many resources.
        bluGill 3y ago
        Many lawns in the US do use grass native to that part of the US. Not all, but many. However grass goes dormant when it doesn't rain for a couple weeks and people don't like that brown look so they water even though the grass (either native or imported) doesn't need it. Likewise people don't like flowers and other weeds and so they apply a lot of chemicals to the lawn - but the grass doesn't need them. TL;DR: lawns in the US do not need any resources. It is "perfect lawns" that need a lot of resources.
        peterleiser 3y ago
        What is the species that is not native?
        eesmith 3y ago
        Kentucky Bluegrass - Poa pratensis - is a common lawn grass which despite its name is not originally from North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poa_pratensis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poa_pratensis Another is Perennial Ryegrass - Lolium perenne - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne . A third is the common bent - Agrostis capillaris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrostis_capillaris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrostis_capillaris .
        quickthrower2 3y ago
        Wow I am surprised monsanto etc. hasn’t come up with and patented a seed to work well on US soil (pun intended)
        lost_tourist 3y ago
  - yarpen_z 3y ago
    We don't really have suburbs like the one in the US. Having a perfect lawn that requires constant watering and meticulous care is not common.
    - boppo1 3y ago
      What is the landscaping around single family homes like then? Or do you just have urban & rural without an in-between?
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        Google Street View will let you look at plenty of Polish homes.
      - wizzwizz4 3y ago
        Trees, hedges, native grasses and shrubs: the kinds of plant you'd probably consider "weeds" in US suburbia. Within cities, there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house, and there are villages in amongst the fields and forests of rural areas. Places like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_Park,_Whitehall._Dublin,_Ireland_-_geograph.org.uk_-_332084.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_Park,_Whitehall... are the closest I've really seen to US suburbia, and it's always been within walking distance of a food shop.
      - cogman10 3y ago
        I'm the EU, most homes are terraced. There may be a back and front yard, but they will be tiny compared to a US home. Single family homes are both expensive and uncommon as land is generally more of a premium.
        seszett 3y ago
        Even in Belgium, one of the highest density countries in the EU, most existing and newly built houses are semi-detached, with about twice as much semi-detached + detached houses as there are terraced houses. In France, terraced homes are rather uncommon outside the North close to Belgium, and old city centers. In fact, I don't even know if we have a name for detached houses, as far as I know they're just called "a house" while a terraced house is a "city house". So I don't have the numbers for all of the EU but I don't think most homes are actually terraced homes in the EU. And people do have grass lawns, but only where grass actually grows without too much care needed. Where I come from on the coast grass doesn't grow well on the sandy ground and lawns are uncommon, but a few kilometres inland if you don't do anything you get a mostly-grass lawn, with a lot of clover, daisies and often orchids growing in it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - moooo99 3y ago
    > It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste to water the lawn with drinking water. Watering the lawn is just a waste of water, period. Ground water is commonly used as the primary source of drinking water, so even if the water is being extracted from a well, it is pretty much drinking water.
    - lost_tourist 3y ago
      This is the next environmental movement i'd love to see, the end of lawns and acceptance of native landscapes all over the world, but especially the western world.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      This very much depends on the place. There are plenty of areas of Europe where groundwater at ordinary well depth is no longer potable and the community relies on a reservoir with a different source. So, if your property has an old well, all it is good for is watering a lawn or orchard, washing your car or bicycle, etc.
      - eric-hu 3y ago
        I’m curious: if the water isn’t considered potable, would you want to be watering plants with it? Is the contamination more often bacterial than chemical?
        OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        People all over the world water plants with water that is not potable itself due to bacterial or viral contamination. This is where the old traveler’s adage “Boil it, cook it, peel it, or forget it” comes from. If the groundwater is not potable because of e.g. arsenic or pesticide contamination, I think that homeowners are usually aware of that and therefore are more likely to use the water only for washing purposes.
        eric-hu 3y ago
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- fakedang 3y ago
  I think we'll see a similar scenario as what happened in many rural and semi-urban areas of India. Most folks use well water for their daily use, but still maintain an urban/central water connection in case of emergencies (especially as droughts are becoming more of a reality worldwide). Well digging is still going strong - actually stronger, since people are now digging deeper wells as the water table is shrinking.
- momirlan 3y ago
  you also have to consider the price to pay for metered municipal water. i would still prefer free water from my own dug well.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    I did consider that price: it is negligible in Poland. The now-obligatory water and sewage connection in all villages brings service fees that people sometimes grumble about, but water itself doesn’t cost very much.
- badtension 3y ago
  You could bypass that with a domestic wastewater treatment plant.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    That does not appear to be the case. A friend of mine spent a considerable amount of money a few years ago to build a wastewater treatment system on his property. Then the gmina told him that, under new legislation, he would still have to connect his property to the common sewage system. This is something that he and many of his neighbours were reluctant to do, because it brings new monthly service charges. He tried to argue his case and managed to stall for several months, but eventually he was forced to do so lest he be fined. I have heard villagers in Spain and Italy complaining about the same thing, so I assumed there was a new loi communitaire.
    - Animatronio 3y ago
      A sewage system doesn't work well without periodic flushes. Having too few houses connected to it means it is at risk of drying and clogging. Most probably when it was designed they took into account the number of houses is was supposed to collect waste water from. Anything less then that number would be risky for the whole system.
    - badtension 3y ago
      That's very concerning, I did a little query yesterday and haven't found any law changes that might have been introduced recently. https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/utrzymanie-czystosci-i-porzadku-w-gminach-16797931/roz-3 https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/utrzymanie... Not trying to ignore your point, I am aware gmina might try and force their own solutions without respect to the more general law (there's been cases resolved in favor of the common people in the past). If you have any more details why you absolutely have to connect to the municipal sewage system please let me know.
jeffrallen 3y ago
The first week I came to live in Guatemala from the USA 3 brothers from a nearby village dies of asphyxiation at the bottom of a hand dug well which had a generator running too close up above. Don't risk it. Confined spaces are dangerous.
- b112 3y ago
  This is terrible, but the same thing can happen in a basement, and even has happened in low laying areas of land. Would you suggest we stop digging basements? There are far more issues with just walking outside, lightning strikes hitting people, are more common.
  - praptak 3y ago
    The biggest risk of construction comes from handling the concrete rings. I haven't heard of a suffocation accident. These are much more common when people maintain their sanitation tanks.
  - jeffrallen 3y ago
    I'm going to declare a new law, a la Bettredge's Law: "When a small probability is claimed, without evidence, to be less than that of death by lightening strikes, it is safe to assume the small probability is in fact higher than the risk of death by lightening strikes". Find me the evidence and I'll admit that my new law is invalid. :)
    - InitialLastName 3y ago
      I don't need evidence to know that the odds of casualties falling into a modern well (that is a few inches in diameter) such as the one being drilled here are less than being hit by lightning (assuming lightning is possible). I won't rule out the possibility of an ankle sprain.
- praptak 3y ago
  I think it will solve itself as people move to steel pipes which are generally less labor intensive to drill. They also eliminate the danger of falling into the well.
beardedwalleye 3y ago
That's >1300 US Gallons, which is a little more than what we use in a week as a family of 5.
- faangguyindia 3y ago
  My family of 4 uses 500 gallons of water here in Himalayan foothills.
  - erlenmayer 3y ago
    [dead]
- moooo99 3y ago
  Wait, that is per day?!
gibspaulding 3y ago
This is really interesting, though I unfortunately don't read Polish. For each ring deeper, do you dig out under the bottom ring until it slides down and another can be added to the top of the stack? That sounds terrifying having a whole stack of concrete shifting around above you.
- schobi 3y ago
  I built such a well... The concrete rings will just sloooowly slide down once there is room under them. If you dig evenly, they will just go down straight. Only a few centimeters at a time. This part does not feel dangerous. As a bonus,you can buy concrete rings with steps included, so you don't need to buy a 5m long ladder. In historic well digging the walls needed to be secured with wooden planks or bricks and such after digging straight down. Huge risk of the walls falling in. This was a problem just generations ago... And all of the family had stories of grandfather's digging wells that collapsed and that the historic approach was dangerous. With concrete rings, there is no danger of collapsing. And certainly, when placing a ring, noone should be standing inside! But yes... - It becomes a little claustrophobic when this becomes deep. I stopped at 4.5m and got used to it by the time we came that deep. - I put a pipe in to blow fresh air to the bottom. This helps with the uneasy feeling of a possible bad smell - there is a risk of dropping a bucket on the head. Use a proper rope, a proper knot, a proper bucket made for lifting and stop when the guy above needs a break

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

With the recent legislation that every Polish village has to be connected to water and sewage even if the homeowner wanted to remain off-grid, I would expect not expect well-digging to remain popular.

jcarrano 3y ago
It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste to water the lawn with drinking water.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  It is not as common to water one’s lawn in Poland. It’s not like the country doesn’t get enough rain, and most villagers don’t feel the need to show off perfect lawns to their neighbors as e.g. in the USA.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    Don’t water the lawn (or fertilise or roundup etc.) in Australia: for some reason it stays green without it: buffalo grass is as tough as nails! Sometimes it goes yellow but it always comes back!
    - moooo99 3y ago
      Lawns in the US consume as many resources as they do because the typical lawn you see isn't a species native to the US, instead it was imported from Europe. With the soil being different etc., it is not surprising lawns, especially when they're as big as in the US, require so many resources.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Many lawns in the US do use grass native to that part of the US. Not all, but many. However grass goes dormant when it doesn't rain for a couple weeks and people don't like that brown look so they water even though the grass (either native or imported) doesn't need it. Likewise people don't like flowers and other weeds and so they apply a lot of chemicals to the lawn - but the grass doesn't need them. TL;DR: lawns in the US do not need any resources. It is "perfect lawns" that need a lot of resources.
      - peterleiser 3y ago
        What is the species that is not native?
        eesmith 3y ago
        Kentucky Bluegrass - Poa pratensis - is a common lawn grass which despite its name is not originally from North America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poa_pratensis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poa_pratensis Another is Perennial Ryegrass - Lolium perenne - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne . A third is the common bent - Agrostis capillaris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrostis_capillaris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrostis_capillaris .
      - quickthrower2 3y ago
        Wow I am surprised monsanto etc. hasn’t come up with and patented a seed to work well on US soil (pun intended)
      - lost_tourist 3y ago
- yarpen_z 3y ago
  We don't really have suburbs like the one in the US. Having a perfect lawn that requires constant watering and meticulous care is not common.
  - boppo1 3y ago
    What is the landscaping around single family homes like then? Or do you just have urban & rural without an in-between?
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      Google Street View will let you look at plenty of Polish homes.
    - wizzwizz4 3y ago
      Trees, hedges, native grasses and shrubs: the kinds of plant you'd probably consider "weeds" in US suburbia. Within cities, there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house, and there are villages in amongst the fields and forests of rural areas. Places like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_Park,_Whitehall._Dublin,_Ireland_-_geograph.org.uk_-_332084.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_Park,_Whitehall... are the closest I've really seen to US suburbia, and it's always been within walking distance of a food shop.
    - cogman10 3y ago
      I'm the EU, most homes are terraced. There may be a back and front yard, but they will be tiny compared to a US home. Single family homes are both expensive and uncommon as land is generally more of a premium.
      - seszett 3y ago
        Even in Belgium, one of the highest density countries in the EU, most existing and newly built houses are semi-detached, with about twice as much semi-detached + detached houses as there are terraced houses. In France, terraced homes are rather uncommon outside the North close to Belgium, and old city centers. In fact, I don't even know if we have a name for detached houses, as far as I know they're just called "a house" while a terraced house is a "city house". So I don't have the numbers for all of the EU but I don't think most homes are actually terraced homes in the EU. And people do have grass lawns, but only where grass actually grows without too much care needed. Where I come from on the coast grass doesn't grow well on the sandy ground and lawns are uncommon, but a few kilometres inland if you don't do anything you get a mostly-grass lawn, with a lot of clover, daisies and often orchids growing in it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- moooo99 3y ago
  > It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste to water the lawn with drinking water. Watering the lawn is just a waste of water, period. Ground water is commonly used as the primary source of drinking water, so even if the water is being extracted from a well, it is pretty much drinking water.
  - lost_tourist 3y ago
    This is the next environmental movement i'd love to see, the end of lawns and acceptance of native landscapes all over the world, but especially the western world.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    This very much depends on the place. There are plenty of areas of Europe where groundwater at ordinary well depth is no longer potable and the community relies on a reservoir with a different source. So, if your property has an old well, all it is good for is watering a lawn or orchard, washing your car or bicycle, etc.
    - eric-hu 3y ago
      I’m curious: if the water isn’t considered potable, would you want to be watering plants with it? Is the contamination more often bacterial than chemical?
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        People all over the world water plants with water that is not potable itself due to bacterial or viral contamination. This is where the old traveler’s adage “Boil it, cook it, peel it, or forget it” comes from. If the groundwater is not potable because of e.g. arsenic or pesticide contamination, I think that homeowners are usually aware of that and therefore are more likely to use the water only for washing purposes.
        eric-hu 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
fakedang 3y ago
I think we'll see a similar scenario as what happened in many rural and semi-urban areas of India. Most folks use well water for their daily use, but still maintain an urban/central water connection in case of emergencies (especially as droughts are becoming more of a reality worldwide). Well digging is still going strong - actually stronger, since people are now digging deeper wells as the water table is shrinking.
momirlan 3y ago
you also have to consider the price to pay for metered municipal water. i would still prefer free water from my own dug well.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  I did consider that price: it is negligible in Poland. The now-obligatory water and sewage connection in all villages brings service fees that people sometimes grumble about, but water itself doesn’t cost very much.
badtension 3y ago
You could bypass that with a domestic wastewater treatment plant.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  That does not appear to be the case. A friend of mine spent a considerable amount of money a few years ago to build a wastewater treatment system on his property. Then the gmina told him that, under new legislation, he would still have to connect his property to the common sewage system. This is something that he and many of his neighbours were reluctant to do, because it brings new monthly service charges. He tried to argue his case and managed to stall for several months, but eventually he was forced to do so lest he be fined. I have heard villagers in Spain and Italy complaining about the same thing, so I assumed there was a new loi communitaire.
  - Animatronio 3y ago
    A sewage system doesn't work well without periodic flushes. Having too few houses connected to it means it is at risk of drying and clogging. Most probably when it was designed they took into account the number of houses is was supposed to collect waste water from. Anything less then that number would be risky for the whole system.
  - badtension 3y ago
    That's very concerning, I did a little query yesterday and haven't found any law changes that might have been introduced recently. https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/utrzymanie-czystosci-i-porzadku-w-gminach-16797931/roz-3 https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/utrzymanie... Not trying to ignore your point, I am aware gmina might try and force their own solutions without respect to the more general law (there's been cases resolved in favor of the common people in the past). If you have any more details why you absolutely have to connect to the municipal sewage system please let me know.

jeffrallen 3y ago

The first week I came to live in Guatemala from the USA 3 brothers from a nearby village dies of asphyxiation at the bottom of a hand dug well which had a generator running too close up above. Don't risk it. Confined spaces are dangerous.

b112 3y ago
This is terrible, but the same thing can happen in a basement, and even has happened in low laying areas of land. Would you suggest we stop digging basements? There are far more issues with just walking outside, lightning strikes hitting people, are more common.
- praptak 3y ago
  The biggest risk of construction comes from handling the concrete rings. I haven't heard of a suffocation accident. These are much more common when people maintain their sanitation tanks.
- jeffrallen 3y ago
  I'm going to declare a new law, a la Bettredge's Law: "When a small probability is claimed, without evidence, to be less than that of death by lightening strikes, it is safe to assume the small probability is in fact higher than the risk of death by lightening strikes". Find me the evidence and I'll admit that my new law is invalid. :)
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    I don't need evidence to know that the odds of casualties falling into a modern well (that is a few inches in diameter) such as the one being drilled here are less than being hit by lightning (assuming lightning is possible). I won't rule out the possibility of an ankle sprain.
praptak 3y ago
I think it will solve itself as people move to steel pipes which are generally less labor intensive to drill. They also eliminate the danger of falling into the well.

beardedwalleye 3y ago

That's >1300 US Gallons, which is a little more than what we use in a week as a family of 5.

faangguyindia 3y ago
My family of 4 uses 500 gallons of water here in Himalayan foothills.
- erlenmayer 3y ago
  [dead]
moooo99 3y ago
Wait, that is per day?!

gibspaulding 3y ago

This is really interesting, though I unfortunately don't read Polish. For each ring deeper, do you dig out under the bottom ring until it slides down and another can be added to the top of the stack? That sounds terrifying having a whole stack of concrete shifting around above you.

schobi 3y ago
I built such a well... The concrete rings will just sloooowly slide down once there is room under them. If you dig evenly, they will just go down straight. Only a few centimeters at a time. This part does not feel dangerous. As a bonus,you can buy concrete rings with steps included, so you don't need to buy a 5m long ladder. In historic well digging the walls needed to be secured with wooden planks or bricks and such after digging straight down. Huge risk of the walls falling in. This was a problem just generations ago... And all of the family had stories of grandfather's digging wells that collapsed and that the historic approach was dangerous. With concrete rings, there is no danger of collapsing. And certainly, when placing a ring, noone should be standing inside! But yes... - It becomes a little claustrophobic when this becomes deep. I stopped at 4.5m and got used to it by the time we came that deep. - I put a pipe in to blow fresh air to the bottom. This helps with the uneasy feeling of a possible bad smell - there is a risk of dropping a bucket on the head. Use a proper rope, a proper knot, a proper bucket made for lifting and stop when the guy above needs a break