7 ms·

This ignores the most difficult part...getting a permit

oceanplexian 3y ago
I think the idea behind doing it yourself is that you don’t need a permit. In the USA, while permits are technically required for a lot of things, the law is widely ignored, and enforcement is lax to nonexistent. Hell most of the licensed contractors I hire (electric, plumbing, etc) don’t bother to pull permits, even for new work.
- pbourke 3y ago
  You will likely have issues if you ever try to sell property with an unpermitted well. FHA loans have restrictions on the well as do many local jurisdictions that may refuse to convey the property if the well isn’t up to code. My local jurisdiction won’t block the sale but will write an alarming letter to the seller. In the case of a new build or major remodel, you will not be able to get a certificate of occupancy without a state and county verified well here. > Hell most of the licensed contractors I hire (electric, plumbing, etc) don’t bother to pull permits, even for new work. Yeah, it’s your responsibility as a homeowner to get the permit (either get it yourself or see that the contractor does). Even if you don’t think the permit inspectors are doing anything in terms of quality control, the permit helps you to pass inspections as part of the sale process and will limit your insurance exposure if there’s ever an issue. There’s probably fine print in your insurance contract saying that all work shall be permitted as required.
  - bragr 3y ago
    Yeah, it doesn't take a genius inspector to take the as built plans, the list of work permits, and see if that explains current state of the house. And then there's the whole issue of mandatory disclosure forms and how forthcoming you are on those and if whatever you put down aligns with the inspectors find.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ghaff 3y ago
      That assumes there are as built plans. I live in an area of the US with a lot of old houses and there certainly aren't as built plans for 100-200+ year old houses or a string of permits for any substantial work. (Well/septic tend to get more scrutiny at a sale but the status of old renovations/remodels in general are often pretty opaque.)
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The permits exist for a reason. If too many people start doing it, it becomes an issue of overdrawing groundwater. This leads to an arms race of digging ever deeper wells to reach the remaining groundwater, and on top of that starts leading to ground subsidence as ground formerly full of water dries out and compacts. Off the top of my head, there is massive groundwater subsidence in the Central Valley of California, Mexico City, and Jakarta due to this issue, at rates measured in feet per year. This makes the land prone to flooding, and also damages buildings and infrastructure since the subsidence is generally not evenly spread out.
  - anakaine 3y ago
    Importantly, in case it wasn't obvious to readers, hydrocompaction cannot be undone in any meaningful way. Once the compaction happens, water will no longer, and will never again, flow in the compacted area.
  - d00wgnir 3y ago
    I was looking into this DIY approach and it is not allowed in my county. Some of the justification is that improperly cased wells can allow backflow contamination of the larger water supply, affecting other nearby water sources. I'm not sure how likely this is as I have limited knowledge of the subject.
- KirillPanov 3y ago
  At least in my state (Washington), electricians and plumbers licenses include an annual permit which covers all the work they do during that year. It's only the trades that don't have a licensing program (or are only licensed as "general contractor") that need a separate permit for each job instead of one big one that covers all their work for the year.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    Each individual job also needs a permit
myspy 3y ago
We had the idea to drill one to here in Germany, but having drilled it doesn‘t mean you can use it as long as you please. Ground water levels are falling and eventually it will be forbidden. But we also have a 13k liter cistern and with drip irrigation it holds reasonably long.
K0balt 3y ago
And today I am reminded that people in many places must get the state’s permission to build, repair, or improve their shelter, to grow food, to collect rainwater, to dig a well. On property they “own”. You’re literally asking the states permission to have the basic things needed for human survival- shelter, food, and water. While this makes sense to me for a business or an organisation, it strikes me as unconscionable for a private individual to have to get permission from the state to survive.
- Neil44 3y ago
  I understand the sentiment but when you have this many people living close together, somebody has to be the adult to make sure things continue to work for everybody.
- EliRivers 3y ago
  On property they own Ownership that is regulate and enforced by the state; if you own it according to the rules, you use it according to the rules. If you want to do something else, you can step outside the rules and best of luck to you.
  - technothrasher 3y ago
    > you can step outside the rules and best of luck to you. This is why I cannot understand how the 'sovereign citizen' nonsense is at all appealing to anybody. If I'm my own boss and not morally subject to society's rules, how is it not fair game then for society to completely ignore my desires and needs? Like, ok, lets say our courts have no jurisdiction over you, but then it also follows that we can just shoot you dead where you stand and move on with our society. I get that it feels unfair to be born into rules you didn't agree to, but a second's reflection makes it obvious the other alternative is not at all a good one.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      > how is it not fair game then for society to completely ignore my desires and needs? Best I can tell, it already does this. Not saying I believe the lunatic sovereign citizen horseshit, about how if they spell my name in all uppercase letters on the paperwork, I'm not subject to courts of law... But yeh, they're definitely completely ignoring my desires and needs. Yours too. Some people are just slow to catch on.
greenie_beans 3y ago
permits don't exist in the county where i want to do this.
amluto 3y ago
Well permit requirements are highly variable. As I understand it, in surprisingly large parts of California, the permit is almost automatic. In other parts of California, there are more complex regulations and sometimes even requirements to meter and pay for (!) well water usage. Cough, Santa Clara, cough. I’d actually be all in favor, except that the rate for non-agricultural users seems to be over 10x the rate for agricultural users.

I think the idea behind doing it yourself is that you don’t need a permit. In the USA, while permits are technically required for a lot of things, the law is widely ignored, and enforcement is lax to nonexistent. Hell most of the licensed contractors I hire (electric, plumbing, etc) don’t bother to pull permits, even for new work.

pbourke 3y ago
You will likely have issues if you ever try to sell property with an unpermitted well. FHA loans have restrictions on the well as do many local jurisdictions that may refuse to convey the property if the well isn’t up to code. My local jurisdiction won’t block the sale but will write an alarming letter to the seller. In the case of a new build or major remodel, you will not be able to get a certificate of occupancy without a state and county verified well here. > Hell most of the licensed contractors I hire (electric, plumbing, etc) don’t bother to pull permits, even for new work. Yeah, it’s your responsibility as a homeowner to get the permit (either get it yourself or see that the contractor does). Even if you don’t think the permit inspectors are doing anything in terms of quality control, the permit helps you to pass inspections as part of the sale process and will limit your insurance exposure if there’s ever an issue. There’s probably fine print in your insurance contract saying that all work shall be permitted as required.
- bragr 3y ago
  Yeah, it doesn't take a genius inspector to take the as built plans, the list of work permits, and see if that explains current state of the house. And then there's the whole issue of mandatory disclosure forms and how forthcoming you are on those and if whatever you put down aligns with the inspectors find.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ghaff 3y ago
    That assumes there are as built plans. I live in an area of the US with a lot of old houses and there certainly aren't as built plans for 100-200+ year old houses or a string of permits for any substantial work. (Well/septic tend to get more scrutiny at a sale but the status of old renovations/remodels in general are often pretty opaque.)
bobthepanda 3y ago
The permits exist for a reason. If too many people start doing it, it becomes an issue of overdrawing groundwater. This leads to an arms race of digging ever deeper wells to reach the remaining groundwater, and on top of that starts leading to ground subsidence as ground formerly full of water dries out and compacts. Off the top of my head, there is massive groundwater subsidence in the Central Valley of California, Mexico City, and Jakarta due to this issue, at rates measured in feet per year. This makes the land prone to flooding, and also damages buildings and infrastructure since the subsidence is generally not evenly spread out.
- anakaine 3y ago
  Importantly, in case it wasn't obvious to readers, hydrocompaction cannot be undone in any meaningful way. Once the compaction happens, water will no longer, and will never again, flow in the compacted area.
- d00wgnir 3y ago
  I was looking into this DIY approach and it is not allowed in my county. Some of the justification is that improperly cased wells can allow backflow contamination of the larger water supply, affecting other nearby water sources. I'm not sure how likely this is as I have limited knowledge of the subject.
KirillPanov 3y ago
At least in my state (Washington), electricians and plumbers licenses include an annual permit which covers all the work they do during that year. It's only the trades that don't have a licensing program (or are only licensed as "general contractor") that need a separate permit for each job instead of one big one that covers all their work for the year.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  Each individual job also needs a permit

myspy 3y ago

We had the idea to drill one to here in Germany, but having drilled it doesn‘t mean you can use it as long as you please. Ground water levels are falling and eventually it will be forbidden. But we also have a 13k liter cistern and with drip irrigation it holds reasonably long.

K0balt 3y ago

And today I am reminded that people in many places must get the state’s permission to build, repair, or improve their shelter, to grow food, to collect rainwater, to dig a well. On property they “own”. You’re literally asking the states permission to have the basic things needed for human survival- shelter, food, and water. While this makes sense to me for a business or an organisation, it strikes me as unconscionable for a private individual to have to get permission from the state to survive.

Neil44 3y ago
I understand the sentiment but when you have this many people living close together, somebody has to be the adult to make sure things continue to work for everybody.
EliRivers 3y ago
On property they own Ownership that is regulate and enforced by the state; if you own it according to the rules, you use it according to the rules. If you want to do something else, you can step outside the rules and best of luck to you.
- technothrasher 3y ago
  > you can step outside the rules and best of luck to you. This is why I cannot understand how the 'sovereign citizen' nonsense is at all appealing to anybody. If I'm my own boss and not morally subject to society's rules, how is it not fair game then for society to completely ignore my desires and needs? Like, ok, lets say our courts have no jurisdiction over you, but then it also follows that we can just shoot you dead where you stand and move on with our society. I get that it feels unfair to be born into rules you didn't agree to, but a second's reflection makes it obvious the other alternative is not at all a good one.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    > how is it not fair game then for society to completely ignore my desires and needs? Best I can tell, it already does this. Not saying I believe the lunatic sovereign citizen horseshit, about how if they spell my name in all uppercase letters on the paperwork, I'm not subject to courts of law... But yeh, they're definitely completely ignoring my desires and needs. Yours too. Some people are just slow to catch on.

greenie_beans 3y ago

permits don't exist in the county where i want to do this.

amluto 3y ago

Well permit requirements are highly variable. As I understand it, in surprisingly large parts of California, the permit is almost automatic. In other parts of California, there are more complex regulations and sometimes even requirements to meter and pay for (!) well water usage. Cough, Santa Clara, cough. I’d actually be all in favor, except that the rate for non-agricultural users seems to be over 10x the rate for agricultural users.