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Scanners and printers that don't scan/print currency have been around for decades. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch to have a "do not duplicate" watermark

Scanners and printers that don't scan/print currency have been around for decades. It doesn't seem that much of a stretch to have a "do not duplicate" watermark embedded in audio/video streams that recording devices respect. I could imagine (say) the latest and greatest video encoder consortium requiring that as a condition of licence. This might seem overly pessimistic, but I feel like the relationship between the customer and the computing device is steadily tilting towards "consumer / user" vs "customer / owner"

BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago
One mechanism behind that is the EURion Constellation. I believe there are others out there as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
Turskarama 3y ago
The difference there is that printed money has to be very high quality to be worth copying, so you can enforce it on the few companies which make good enough printers. A camera on the other hand is very cheap to make. You could maybe enforce all smartphones to obey your watermark, but what about a raspberry pi?
- dotancohen 3y ago
  Because if the Raspberry Pi camera can not take photographs that support the current iPhone coolness (live photo, or depth, or on-viewing selectable dynamic range, or I don't know what else) because the latest codec is not licensed, then the camera will not sell. So the quality Raspberry Pi camera makers don't even sell a model that doesn't respect the copy protection.
  - Turskarama 3y ago
    You would literally need to deprecate jpg, png, every other image format in existence to make that happen. It's not gonna happen.
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      Only need to deprecate the ability to create such an image on the camera, not the ability to read one. Example license phrasing: > To license Foobar, the licensee will refrain from manufacturing or selling devices which could be used to circumvent SuperFoo Security features, even if such functionality is not part of a device supporting Foobar itself.
      - hex4def6 3y ago
        Yeah, this is my concern. Or, for instance, it could require SuperFoo watermark detection to run continuously, regardless of whether the encoder output is SuperFoo Codec or something like MJPG. I think it is naive to assume that such DRM will always be crackable. I was at a recent conference on AI vision, and one big (to me) new feature that camera sensor vendors like Sony are advertising are ISP-like features directly on sensor (motion detection etc). At some point, it seems entirely possible that you couldn't even bypass something like this at the sensor level.
brookst 3y ago
There are lots of firmware/software hacks to defeat these kinds of things: https://www.pelock.com/services/reverse-engineering/how-to-open-money-banknote-image-in-photoshop-bypass-eurion-constellation https://www.pelock.com/services/reverse-engineering/how-to-o... There may be a mild deterrence to casual users, but if the photons are reaching a human’s eyes, there are ways to capture them.

BuyMyBitcoins 3y ago

One mechanism behind that is the EURion Constellation. I believe there are others out there as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

Turskarama 3y ago

The difference there is that printed money has to be very high quality to be worth copying, so you can enforce it on the few companies which make good enough printers. A camera on the other hand is very cheap to make. You could maybe enforce all smartphones to obey your watermark, but what about a raspberry pi?

dotancohen 3y ago
Because if the Raspberry Pi camera can not take photographs that support the current iPhone coolness (live photo, or depth, or on-viewing selectable dynamic range, or I don't know what else) because the latest codec is not licensed, then the camera will not sell. So the quality Raspberry Pi camera makers don't even sell a model that doesn't respect the copy protection.
- Turskarama 3y ago
  You would literally need to deprecate jpg, png, every other image format in existence to make that happen. It's not gonna happen.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    Only need to deprecate the ability to create such an image on the camera, not the ability to read one. Example license phrasing: > To license Foobar, the licensee will refrain from manufacturing or selling devices which could be used to circumvent SuperFoo Security features, even if such functionality is not part of a device supporting Foobar itself.
    - hex4def6 3y ago
      Yeah, this is my concern. Or, for instance, it could require SuperFoo watermark detection to run continuously, regardless of whether the encoder output is SuperFoo Codec or something like MJPG. I think it is naive to assume that such DRM will always be crackable. I was at a recent conference on AI vision, and one big (to me) new feature that camera sensor vendors like Sony are advertising are ISP-like features directly on sensor (motion detection etc). At some point, it seems entirely possible that you couldn't even bypass something like this at the sensor level.

brookst 3y ago

There are lots of firmware/software hacks to defeat these kinds of things: https://www.pelock.com/services/reverse-engineering/how-to-open-money-banknote-image-in-photoshop-bypass-eurion-constellation https://www.pelock.com/services/reverse-engineering/how-to-o... There may be a mild deterrence to casual users, but if the photons are reaching a human’s eyes, there are ways to capture them.