3 ms·

Wages are rising: https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation

by wilg 3y ago

tuatoru 3y ago
Just catching up to years of undershooting inflation. In real terms still worse than 1969.
- astrange 3y ago
  Definitely not. You wouldn't like the food, cars and home appliances of 1969, and you really wouldn't like the healthcare.
  - cbozeman 3y ago
    The food of 1969? I've had it. It was my aunt's cooking and my uncle's butchering - shooting a hog right in the head and then gutting it, draining the blood, and prepping it to go onto a gigantic smoker, and it was delicious. And if you really didn't feel like cooking food yourself, McDonald's did exist back then, along with things like Kentucky Fried Chicken, Krystal, Burger King, etc. They didn't throw sugar into every single product on the market, either. The home appliances? You mean blenders and toasters and refrigerators and mixers that would last 20-30 years before needing to be replaced because they were so well-engineered? Those 1969 home appliances? Like the KitchenAid K45 mixer that was released in 1962 and stayed in production for decades? Like the one my Mom got in 1971 that she still has today, whose motor still works fine, and the only thing that's ever been done is 30 minutes of taking it apart and checking the worm drive gears and re-greasing them? Those 1969 appliances?? And the cars? Yeah those were kinda shitty compared to what we have now. For the most part though, you're not just off-base on the food and appliances, you're hilariously off-base.
    - astrange 3y ago
      What % of houses do you remember having heating and indoor plumbing? https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2004/data/papers/SS04_Panel1_Paper17.pdf https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2004/data/papers/SS0... The aspics were pretty good though. https://twitter.com/70s_party https://twitter.com/70s_party Couldn't have had eg good Brussels sprouts though, we hadn't invented them yet.
  - intended 3y ago
    Apples and oranges. You would like a home from 1969. You would like the salary saved from 1969.
    - astrange 3y ago
      > You would like a home from 1969. As I live in California, I've seen 'em. They're not all Eichlers. > You would like the salary saved from 1969. A tech worker makes more than 5 times the median 2023 personal income and their industry didn't exist then, so I mean, I wouldn't even if I could afford the house in Palo Alto. And you wouldn't want to say this to a racial minority or even someone in Appalachia.
      - intended 3y ago
        You’ve kinda proven the point. The argument made was cherry picking. Here again - You’ve used the most highly paid subset of workers. In any other nation, and in other industries in America - Tech workers dont get paid that much.
        astrange 3y ago
        I used the subset that has me in it.
    - jcparkyn 3y ago
      >You would like a home from 1969 The average floor area per person (in the US) has roughly doubled since 1969. Not the most reliable source, but from skimming census data it seems to correlate: https://supplychenmanagement.com/2018/07/15/average-house-size/ https://supplychenmanagement.com/2018/07/15/average-house-si.... I'm personally not much a fan of large houses, but most people are.
  - Tanjreeve 3y ago
    Why do you think there is a zero sum choice between real terms purchasing power increases and the technology we have today? (Also worth noting I'd happily take a lot of goods from a time where they were built to last)
    - astrange 3y ago
      There isn't a choice, the original post is incorrect. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96
      - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
        That's a graph of disposable personal income, not purchasing power, and it doesn't account of the increased cost of several major spending categories. It's also the total disposable personal income for the entire country, and not median household income. See the "Units" field: it's in billions of chained 2012 dollars. It's from 2018, but this shows what's going on more clearly: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...
        astrange 3y ago
        > and it doesn't account of the increased cost of several major spending categories. Inflation adjustment does cover some of that. > It's from 2018, but this shows what's going on more clearly: That's cost of employer healthcare benefits, isn't it? Which causes wages to be an increasingly smaller % of total compensation.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      Built to last, but also generally MUCH less efficient in terms of energy & material usage. Difficult tradeoff.

Wages are rising: https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation

by wilg 3y ago

Wages are rising: https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation https://www.axios.com/2023/07/12/real-wage-gains-inflation

tuatoru 3y ago

Just catching up to years of undershooting inflation. In real terms still worse than 1969.

astrange 3y ago
Definitely not. You wouldn't like the food, cars and home appliances of 1969, and you really wouldn't like the healthcare.
- cbozeman 3y ago
  The food of 1969? I've had it. It was my aunt's cooking and my uncle's butchering - shooting a hog right in the head and then gutting it, draining the blood, and prepping it to go onto a gigantic smoker, and it was delicious. And if you really didn't feel like cooking food yourself, McDonald's did exist back then, along with things like Kentucky Fried Chicken, Krystal, Burger King, etc. They didn't throw sugar into every single product on the market, either. The home appliances? You mean blenders and toasters and refrigerators and mixers that would last 20-30 years before needing to be replaced because they were so well-engineered? Those 1969 home appliances? Like the KitchenAid K45 mixer that was released in 1962 and stayed in production for decades? Like the one my Mom got in 1971 that she still has today, whose motor still works fine, and the only thing that's ever been done is 30 minutes of taking it apart and checking the worm drive gears and re-greasing them? Those 1969 appliances?? And the cars? Yeah those were kinda shitty compared to what we have now. For the most part though, you're not just off-base on the food and appliances, you're hilariously off-base.
  - astrange 3y ago
    What % of houses do you remember having heating and indoor plumbing? https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2004/data/papers/SS04_Panel1_Paper17.pdf https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2004/data/papers/SS0... The aspics were pretty good though. https://twitter.com/70s_party https://twitter.com/70s_party Couldn't have had eg good Brussels sprouts though, we hadn't invented them yet.
- intended 3y ago
  Apples and oranges. You would like a home from 1969. You would like the salary saved from 1969.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > You would like a home from 1969. As I live in California, I've seen 'em. They're not all Eichlers. > You would like the salary saved from 1969. A tech worker makes more than 5 times the median 2023 personal income and their industry didn't exist then, so I mean, I wouldn't even if I could afford the house in Palo Alto. And you wouldn't want to say this to a racial minority or even someone in Appalachia.
    - intended 3y ago
      You’ve kinda proven the point. The argument made was cherry picking. Here again - You’ve used the most highly paid subset of workers. In any other nation, and in other industries in America - Tech workers dont get paid that much.
      - astrange 3y ago
        I used the subset that has me in it.
  - jcparkyn 3y ago
    >You would like a home from 1969 The average floor area per person (in the US) has roughly doubled since 1969. Not the most reliable source, but from skimming census data it seems to correlate: https://supplychenmanagement.com/2018/07/15/average-house-size/ https://supplychenmanagement.com/2018/07/15/average-house-si.... I'm personally not much a fan of large houses, but most people are.
- Tanjreeve 3y ago
  Why do you think there is a zero sum choice between real terms purchasing power increases and the technology we have today? (Also worth noting I'd happily take a lot of goods from a time where they were built to last)
  - astrange 3y ago
    There isn't a choice, the original post is incorrect. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DSPIC96
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      That's a graph of disposable personal income, not purchasing power, and it doesn't account of the increased cost of several major spending categories. It's also the total disposable personal income for the entire country, and not median household income. See the "Units" field: it's in billions of chained 2012 dollars. It's from 2018, but this shows what's going on more clearly: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...
      - astrange 3y ago
        > and it doesn't account of the increased cost of several major spending categories. Inflation adjustment does cover some of that. > It's from 2018, but this shows what's going on more clearly: That's cost of employer healthcare benefits, isn't it? Which causes wages to be an increasingly smaller % of total compensation.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Built to last, but also generally MUCH less efficient in terms of energy & material usage. Difficult tradeoff.