Sure, but if we are talking about a place where let's say functional programming is off-limits entirely (note that I wasn't strictly talking about functional pr

Sure, but if we are talking about a place where let's say functional programming is off-limits entirely (note that I wasn't strictly talking about functional programming in my previous posts; I was talking about anything, any paradigm or tool which helps write more sound, more provable, more stable and less buggy programs)... then the "discipline yourself and enjoy the benefits of FP in less capable languages" will not work either, because in that place, they clearly don't recognise the benefits, the language doesn't encourage it either, so they'll just write the average code as usual. I am not insulting people personally, I am insulting the "worse is better" culture which is prevalent in the profession. No one has an immutable opinion about this, and I do not think that looking down upon an opinion or set of beliefs is a hostile thing. In a (slightly weird) way, it's actually constructive because it might plant a seed of thought in people that it's possible to do better. I'm doing the opposite of looking down at or insulting people here - I am assuming they are rational and capable of thinking, they just haven't encountered a different mindset than the prevalent and trendy one, and that's a perfectly fine thing. "Developing/using better tools, languages and trying to change developer culture" is a solution. Sure, not a silver bullet or something achievable quickly or easily, but on a smaller scale, it's definitely possible to achieve success.