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So there are 5 observed bosons, and one postulated graviton. The strong force is associaed with the gluon. The Electromagnetism gets the photon. The Weak for

So there are 5 observed bosons, and one postulated graviton. The strong force is associaed with the gluon. The Electromagnetism gets the photon. The Weak force gets the Z and W+/- bosons. Gravity gets the graviton, but that's mostly a placeholder since we don't know how to properly model gravitational effects with QFT. Higgs doesn't get associated with a force (yet).

PaulHoule 3y ago
It's not that hard to model gravity with a QFT, there are so many ways to do quantum gravity now. The problem is deciding which one is right and the answer to that might involve looking inside a black hole or at energy scales of 10^19 GeV, length scales of 10^-35m, etc.
- lanza 3y ago
  In the classical sense of "a QFT" then no there are no ways to do QG. The computations diverge. In the extended sense where you let yourself include non-QFT-like things like strings and spin foams, then sure.
  - sojuz151 3y ago
    But the fact that the computation diverges is not a problem by itself. All QFT diverge but this can be fixed by renormalisation. Problem is that for gravity this would require infinity many parameters and the theory could match any observation
    - andyferris 3y ago
      My understanding was that renormalization only needs "parameters" when the computational methods are approximate. I thought the issue was more that we have no idea how to perform appropriate calculations for SM+QG? Maybe I'm wrong?
- dustingetz 3y ago
  for those following, LHC reached 13 TeV which is 15 orders of magnitude smaller than 10^19 GeV
- probelm 3y ago
  Incompleteness theorem implies none of them are “right” in a “one true axiomatic model” kind of way. Each is “right” so long as they are consistent with our consensus driven glyph system that exists to normalize discussion, and should never be taken as a 1:1 model of reality. The glyph systems are not a pipe.
pa7x1 3y ago
There are 8 gluons, in fact. There is not very good reason why the Higgs interaction is not called a force. I wouldn't read too much into it, tradition carries a lot of weight in how people call things. We could even measure the attractive force it generates: jhttps://arxiv.org/abs/1601.05087 https://arxiv.org/abs/1601.05087
- jychang 3y ago
  That’s news to me. Are you saying the Higgs boson can create a force that accelerates particles in a direction? How does that work?
  - hughesjj 3y ago
    Kind of the opposite though right? As in it dampens acceleration in any direction?
  - pa7x1 3y ago
    Yes, the Higgs boson results in an attractive force between fermions given by the Yukawa potential (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukawa_interaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukawa_interaction). This potential takes basically the same form as the gravitational potential but with an additional exponential decay with distance due to the mass of the boson. Resulting in short-range interactions. So yes, in very short distances (~(inverse of the Higgs mass) ~ 10^-18 m) fermions do experience an attractive force between them due to the Higgs interaction. It works in exactly the same manner the rest of interactions work, the boson (Higgs) is the mediator of the force.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  Probably due to inertia

PaulHoule 3y ago

It's not that hard to model gravity with a QFT, there are so many ways to do quantum gravity now. The problem is deciding which one is right and the answer to that might involve looking inside a black hole or at energy scales of 10^19 GeV, length scales of 10^-35m, etc.

lanza 3y ago
In the classical sense of "a QFT" then no there are no ways to do QG. The computations diverge. In the extended sense where you let yourself include non-QFT-like things like strings and spin foams, then sure.
- sojuz151 3y ago
  But the fact that the computation diverges is not a problem by itself. All QFT diverge but this can be fixed by renormalisation. Problem is that for gravity this would require infinity many parameters and the theory could match any observation
  - andyferris 3y ago
    My understanding was that renormalization only needs "parameters" when the computational methods are approximate. I thought the issue was more that we have no idea how to perform appropriate calculations for SM+QG? Maybe I'm wrong?
dustingetz 3y ago
for those following, LHC reached 13 TeV which is 15 orders of magnitude smaller than 10^19 GeV
probelm 3y ago
Incompleteness theorem implies none of them are “right” in a “one true axiomatic model” kind of way. Each is “right” so long as they are consistent with our consensus driven glyph system that exists to normalize discussion, and should never be taken as a 1:1 model of reality. The glyph systems are not a pipe.

pa7x1 3y ago

There are 8 gluons, in fact. There is not very good reason why the Higgs interaction is not called a force. I wouldn't read too much into it, tradition carries a lot of weight in how people call things. We could even measure the attractive force it generates: jhttps://arxiv.org/abs/1601.05087 https://arxiv.org/abs/1601.05087

jychang 3y ago
That’s news to me. Are you saying the Higgs boson can create a force that accelerates particles in a direction? How does that work?
- hughesjj 3y ago
  Kind of the opposite though right? As in it dampens acceleration in any direction?
- pa7x1 3y ago
  Yes, the Higgs boson results in an attractive force between fermions given by the Yukawa potential (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukawa_interaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukawa_interaction). This potential takes basically the same form as the gravitational potential but with an additional exponential decay with distance due to the mass of the boson. Resulting in short-range interactions. So yes, in very short distances (~(inverse of the Higgs mass) ~ 10^-18 m) fermions do experience an attractive force between them due to the Higgs interaction. It works in exactly the same manner the rest of interactions work, the boson (Higgs) is the mediator of the force.
dilyevsky 3y ago
Probably due to inertia