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>Sanctions seem perfectly fine when a country invades another. Except that they're proven to not work, especially in the recent case you're alluding to. They g

>Sanctions seem perfectly fine when a country invades another. Except that they're proven to not work, especially in the recent case you're alluding to. They generally backfire, and punish only the general population. And there's zero legitimate excuse for the sanctions against many countries, like Venezuela and Cuba-- naked power politics.

badRNG 3y ago
> Except that they're proven to not work It depends on what the goal posts are for what "work" means. I think sanctions work when their cost offsets some of the benefit received through the "undesired behavior" of the target country. They also "work" when the threat of sanctions causes countries to avoid behaviors that would cause them to become sanctioned. If the goal posts are that sanctions must destroy a country's warfighting capabilities in order to "work", then yes, they almost never work.
- miguelazo 3y ago
  >It depends on what the goal posts are for what "work" means. Name one major example where it has worked. North Korea still making nukes, Iran only significantly slowed down its nuclear weapons program when it received sanctions relief as part of the deal that Trump ripped up.
NicoJuicy 3y ago
They do work, it just has a delay. It's important to weaken a bad actor to reduce it's influence ( see: rubble to dollar since 2014, emigration, North Korea, .... ) It only takes 3,5 % of the population to protest ( ymmv ) - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35... I'm not saying that it should still be applied to Cuba/Venezuela. I'm not saying there is no reason to either.
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
> Except that they're proven to not work If that's your objection, I have great news for you. They are proven to work, there's already scientific research in the case of Russia and Ukraine. You can't be bothered to inform yourself so I won't be bothered to search for a reference.
- miguelazo 3y ago
  Please, share your "scientific research" on how they're proven to work. Every serious analysis I have read concluded the exact opposite. And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great, and its exports are still being imported to the west, via India and other BRICs affiliates.
  - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
    > And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great 1 ruble is about 1cent lol Like I said, I'm not sharing anything because you've already made up your mind. Ive skimmed your comment history and you're one of those "america bad" committed ideologies. Sorry, there's nothing I can do for you.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great Was last you checked a little over a year ago, by any chance? Because more recently, that doesn't seem to be true.
    - miguelazo 3y ago
      You are correct, it has taken a dip recently. .011 now vs. .013 before. The real point is that the economy is nowhere near collapsing, and by many measures doing just fine.
      - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
        > You are correct, it has taken a dip recently. .011 now vs. .013 before. You represent this ratio as 0.011 vs 0.013 to pretend it's a small difference, when in reality it's a 15% difference which is huge in forex. You're just fundamentally dishonest.
tibbydudeza 3y ago
It worked in South Africa - the regime held on and the supporters united behind them with the "under siege- we can do it alone" mentality until the power elites realized they were not willing to die on that hill. Fortunately, the security-autocrat in charge had a stroke and was put in hospital - they got rid of him in an overnight transfer of power to his deputy a far more sensible leader who started negotiations for a settlement earning himself a Nobel peace prize. Yes the general population did suffer but we had nothing more to took loose except our dignity, freedom and liberty. The end result was worth it even if the new clowns who replaced them were not any better i.e. the economy
- miguelazo 3y ago
  It was far more than sanctions that brought down that apartheid regime (and to be clear, the US was against much of those measures). It was a truly international coalition, bolstered by widespread support from the general populations of the nations seeking to bring down the regime. That is nothing like what the US has engaged in.

badRNG 3y ago

> Except that they're proven to not work It depends on what the goal posts are for what "work" means. I think sanctions work when their cost offsets some of the benefit received through the "undesired behavior" of the target country. They also "work" when the threat of sanctions causes countries to avoid behaviors that would cause them to become sanctioned. If the goal posts are that sanctions must destroy a country's warfighting capabilities in order to "work", then yes, they almost never work.

miguelazo 3y ago
>It depends on what the goal posts are for what "work" means. Name one major example where it has worked. North Korea still making nukes, Iran only significantly slowed down its nuclear weapons program when it received sanctions relief as part of the deal that Trump ripped up.

NicoJuicy 3y ago

They do work, it just has a delay. It's important to weaken a bad actor to reduce it's influence ( see: rubble to dollar since 2014, emigration, North Korea, .... ) It only takes 3,5 % of the population to protest ( ymmv ) - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35... I'm not saying that it should still be applied to Cuba/Venezuela. I'm not saying there is no reason to either.

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago

> Except that they're proven to not work If that's your objection, I have great news for you. They are proven to work, there's already scientific research in the case of Russia and Ukraine. You can't be bothered to inform yourself so I won't be bothered to search for a reference.

miguelazo 3y ago
Please, share your "scientific research" on how they're proven to work. Every serious analysis I have read concluded the exact opposite. And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great, and its exports are still being imported to the west, via India and other BRICs affiliates.
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
  > And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great 1 ruble is about 1cent lol Like I said, I'm not sharing anything because you've already made up your mind. Ive skimmed your comment history and you're one of those "america bad" committed ideologies. Sorry, there's nothing I can do for you.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > And last I saw the Russian currency was doing great Was last you checked a little over a year ago, by any chance? Because more recently, that doesn't seem to be true.
  - miguelazo 3y ago
    You are correct, it has taken a dip recently. .011 now vs. .013 before. The real point is that the economy is nowhere near collapsing, and by many measures doing just fine.
    - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
      > You are correct, it has taken a dip recently. .011 now vs. .013 before. You represent this ratio as 0.011 vs 0.013 to pretend it's a small difference, when in reality it's a 15% difference which is huge in forex. You're just fundamentally dishonest.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

It worked in South Africa - the regime held on and the supporters united behind them with the "under siege- we can do it alone" mentality until the power elites realized they were not willing to die on that hill. Fortunately, the security-autocrat in charge had a stroke and was put in hospital - they got rid of him in an overnight transfer of power to his deputy a far more sensible leader who started negotiations for a settlement earning himself a Nobel peace prize. Yes the general population did suffer but we had nothing more to took loose except our dignity, freedom and liberty. The end result was worth it even if the new clowns who replaced them were not any better i.e. the economy

miguelazo 3y ago
It was far more than sanctions that brought down that apartheid regime (and to be clear, the US was against much of those measures). It was a truly international coalition, bolstered by widespread support from the general populations of the nations seeking to bring down the regime. That is nothing like what the US has engaged in.