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We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. However, we do our due diligence to make sure we have medical staff on board to advise us on our prot

We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. However, we do our due diligence to make sure we have medical staff on board to advise us on our protocols, services, train our staff, supervise our staff, and to stand in if there is any escalation needed. We hope it's clear Dr. Anil himself is not coaching and very happy to make things more clear by adding his title to the front of the card.

mike_d 3y ago
> We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. > HSA/FSA-eligible. Try harder?
- tomjakubowski 3y ago
  healthcare and medicine aren't synonymous psychologists, mental health therapists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists, and so on, do not practice medicine - but the services they provide can be paid for with HSA and FSA money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_health_professions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_health_professions
  - mike_d 3y ago
    Technicalities don't matter, explicitly calling it out creates a false connection in readers brains. Like how some snake oil treatments say "FDA cleared" because they know consumers don't know what it means.
    - mollybee 3y ago
      I disagree. This isn't about technicalities. I think it's about you assuming that others draw a "false connection" just because you saw one. Most people don't see HSA/FSA and automatically assume that a service is medical care. HSA/FSA funds are for healthcare-RELATED expenses and cover lots of things that aren't medical co-pays or medication: sunscreen, condoms, breast milk pumps, glasses or contacts, health-related home improvements (e.g., wheelchair ramps, hand rails), transportation for medical care, weight loss programs, menstrual care products, band-aids etc. All of those things are healthcare-related, but they're clearly not medical care. There's nothing wrong with stating the objective reality that the cost of Shimmer is HSA/FSA-eligible. HSA/FSA-eligibility is directly relevant to one of Shimmer's key goals, making ADHD coaching accessible to people who can't afford traditional coaching. Using HSA/FSA funds brings down the overall cost significantly, so it's going to be a factor when budgeting. It isn't even close the same thing as snake oil treatments claiming to be "FDA cleared." Consumers may not realize that "FDA cleared" is an absolutely meaningless phrase, but I think we can agree that most adults know the difference between a condom and a licensed medical professional dispensing FDA-approved medication. "HSA/FSA-eligible" is a legitimate, accurate phrase to describe the services Shimmer provides. Plus, anyone who has a HSA/FSA has most likely received education or literature about it through the company providing it for them (typically their employer). They're not reading this post thinking, "Since I can pay for this with the account that I use to buy sunscreen and band-aids, I will surely see a physician and get drugs." Personally, I thought, "Gee, I wish I had a HSA/FSA so I could use it to pay for this health-related service." All brains are different, especially ADHD brains. It's unhelpful to assume they'll all draw the same false conclusion as you did.
- munk-a 3y ago
  I don't think that's a particularly fair point - HSA/FSA eligibility is a billing related question. There are plenty of counseling services that aren't run by formally accredited folks that can achieve HSA/FSA eligibility. The billing arrangement isn't particularly relevant - I do agree that it'd be good to be more forward about the fact that you'll be talking to someone without formal accreditation.
  - christalwang 3y ago
    Thank you for this comment, we've changed the language to reflect this last point on formal medical accreditation, and clarified that even if they do have medical credentials, in Shimmer's capacity they will be practicing ADHD coaching
NegativeLatency 3y ago
It's absurd to claim that you're not trying to pass as a medical service when you're offering coaching for a neurological condition. You can argue medical vs healthcare or whatever semantics you want but if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  Is my golf coach a physical therapist or a physical movement coach? He's been helping me improve my swing around an injury I had dirt biking.
  - fredrikholm 3y ago
    If your golf coach is helping you with your golf swing, I'd say that he's a golf coach.
  - aaaaaaa9000 3y ago
    My grandma once helped me with my math homework, was she a mathematician? You might get lucky with your golf coach. There are people that went to medical school for that though. Your choice.
    - RakutenSatori 3y ago
      She was able to help you though. You don't need a PhD in mathematics to be able to answer some math questions. Positive human interaction goes a long way.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  A good school would provide this. Does that make them a medical service? Or is this actually educational?
- pxc 3y ago
  It's a totally coherent position to hold that the name 'ADHD' gestures at a real thing, but also reject the medicalization of that thing (or, more weakly, that that thing can/should be addressed solely medically). The predominance of the 'medical lens' in addressing cognitive differences is reflected in the language available for naming and describing those things, whether you actually agree with it or not. The notion that ADHD 'really is' a neurological disorder and 'really isn't' anything else misunderstands the purpose of psychiatric diagnostic categories like ADHD in the first place. Psychiatrists and psychologists aren't in the business of ontology, and clinicians especially aren't. Take it from someone who has it: this is a stupidly narrow way to think about ADHD.

mike_d 3y ago

> We definitely are not trying to pass as a medical service. > HSA/FSA-eligible. Try harder?

tomjakubowski 3y ago
healthcare and medicine aren't synonymous psychologists, mental health therapists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists, and so on, do not practice medicine - but the services they provide can be paid for with HSA and FSA money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_health_professions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_health_professions
- mike_d 3y ago
  Technicalities don't matter, explicitly calling it out creates a false connection in readers brains. Like how some snake oil treatments say "FDA cleared" because they know consumers don't know what it means.
  - mollybee 3y ago
    I disagree. This isn't about technicalities. I think it's about you assuming that others draw a "false connection" just because you saw one. Most people don't see HSA/FSA and automatically assume that a service is medical care. HSA/FSA funds are for healthcare-RELATED expenses and cover lots of things that aren't medical co-pays or medication: sunscreen, condoms, breast milk pumps, glasses or contacts, health-related home improvements (e.g., wheelchair ramps, hand rails), transportation for medical care, weight loss programs, menstrual care products, band-aids etc. All of those things are healthcare-related, but they're clearly not medical care. There's nothing wrong with stating the objective reality that the cost of Shimmer is HSA/FSA-eligible. HSA/FSA-eligibility is directly relevant to one of Shimmer's key goals, making ADHD coaching accessible to people who can't afford traditional coaching. Using HSA/FSA funds brings down the overall cost significantly, so it's going to be a factor when budgeting. It isn't even close the same thing as snake oil treatments claiming to be "FDA cleared." Consumers may not realize that "FDA cleared" is an absolutely meaningless phrase, but I think we can agree that most adults know the difference between a condom and a licensed medical professional dispensing FDA-approved medication. "HSA/FSA-eligible" is a legitimate, accurate phrase to describe the services Shimmer provides. Plus, anyone who has a HSA/FSA has most likely received education or literature about it through the company providing it for them (typically their employer). They're not reading this post thinking, "Since I can pay for this with the account that I use to buy sunscreen and band-aids, I will surely see a physician and get drugs." Personally, I thought, "Gee, I wish I had a HSA/FSA so I could use it to pay for this health-related service." All brains are different, especially ADHD brains. It's unhelpful to assume they'll all draw the same false conclusion as you did.
munk-a 3y ago
I don't think that's a particularly fair point - HSA/FSA eligibility is a billing related question. There are plenty of counseling services that aren't run by formally accredited folks that can achieve HSA/FSA eligibility. The billing arrangement isn't particularly relevant - I do agree that it'd be good to be more forward about the fact that you'll be talking to someone without formal accreditation.
- christalwang 3y ago
  Thank you for this comment, we've changed the language to reflect this last point on formal medical accreditation, and clarified that even if they do have medical credentials, in Shimmer's capacity they will be practicing ADHD coaching

NegativeLatency 3y ago

It's absurd to claim that you're not trying to pass as a medical service when you're offering coaching for a neurological condition. You can argue medical vs healthcare or whatever semantics you want but if it quacks like a duck it's a duck.

talldatethrow 3y ago
Is my golf coach a physical therapist or a physical movement coach? He's been helping me improve my swing around an injury I had dirt biking.
- fredrikholm 3y ago
  If your golf coach is helping you with your golf swing, I'd say that he's a golf coach.
- aaaaaaa9000 3y ago
  My grandma once helped me with my math homework, was she a mathematician? You might get lucky with your golf coach. There are people that went to medical school for that though. Your choice.
  - RakutenSatori 3y ago
    She was able to help you though. You don't need a PhD in mathematics to be able to answer some math questions. Positive human interaction goes a long way.
lazyasciiart 3y ago
A good school would provide this. Does that make them a medical service? Or is this actually educational?
pxc 3y ago
It's a totally coherent position to hold that the name 'ADHD' gestures at a real thing, but also reject the medicalization of that thing (or, more weakly, that that thing can/should be addressed solely medically). The predominance of the 'medical lens' in addressing cognitive differences is reflected in the language available for naming and describing those things, whether you actually agree with it or not. The notion that ADHD 'really is' a neurological disorder and 'really isn't' anything else misunderstands the purpose of psychiatric diagnostic categories like ADHD in the first place. Psychiatrists and psychologists aren't in the business of ontology, and clinicians especially aren't. Take it from someone who has it: this is a stupidly narrow way to think about ADHD.