6 ms·

Appreciate this question, it's one we've gotten a lot and quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. To answer a few of your questio

Appreciate this question, it's one we've gotten a lot and quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. To answer a few of your questions... - We don't use psychologists or psychotherapists as the front-line helper because there is a severe shortage of them and our main goal is accessibility. There is a provider shortage (psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc.) in the US and most places in the world - Depending on someone's severity, helpers can include parents/teachers, peer support specialists, mentors, coaches, therapists, psychiatrists, the list goes on (I tried to broadly categorize from least to most intensive); our service does not aim to support the most severe. Anyone who screens with high degree of Mh impairment is not suggested to use Shimmer (and we have screening in the onboarding process) - Frankly, depending who you ask, you'll get a different answer for "are coaches respectable". Coaching is a modality that is "up and coming" because of (1) the need for more providers and subclinical support services, and (2) the credentialing / reimbursement models are evolving... see next point: - We align our model most closely to Health & Wellness Coaching, which is estimated to be reimbursed by next year: https://www.wellcoachesschool.com/post/medicare-moves-advancing-health-equity-quality-and-innovation?inf_contact_key=ce3284c8d0abe0a529730b9e25df8e257e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09 https://www.wellcoachesschool.com/post/medicare-moves-advanc... Overall though, we use PhDs/psychiatrists/master-level coaches to supervise, create protocols, trainings, etc. and use coaches to deliver. (Not AI). Our coaches are either credentialed by ICF (International Coaching Federation) like BetterUp or Ginger or Lyra's coaches, NB-HWC (National Board - Health & Wellness Coaching), or have masters-level psych degree and go through our training. Happy to expand on any of the above!

Apreche 3y ago
You say you haven't found a way to articulate it. You should articulate it exactly the way you do in this comment. You are not providing licensed medical services. Just come out and say it, since it's true. Yes, saying that will cause people to distrust you, and well it should. You are right about there being a shortage, but there is no substitute for a real doctor. That said, being upfront about it instead of trying to beat around the bush or make excuses doesn't help you. It only serves to make you even more untrustworthy. Your attempts to obscure the fact that you aren't providing real medical service only suggests that you know in your heart that what you are providing is not the same. If you believed your "coaches" were good enough, you wouldn't have to do anything at all to hide the fact that they were not real doctors. You could just come out and say it.
- christalwang 3y ago
  Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services. We are most definitely not trying to substitute a real doctor. Full stop. We hope that is clear in all of our communications and website, and do NOT try to obscure that. However, we do a lot of work to work with the right experts (which include clinicians, psychiatrists, etc.) to ensure what we do it safe, follows best practice, is science-backed, and is effective. And we definitely want to highlight this work that has been done and the importance of it. We will update the language to better reflect this immediately.
  - ranting-moth 3y ago
    > Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.
    - christalwang 3y ago
      Thank you for pinpointing this. I re-read many times, and I agree with you. I've just re-written the whole section with our Lead Coaching Psychologist, Xenia.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - agentdrtran 3y ago
        Your website has photos of the doctors for the "care team" and coaches buried under a link. Come on, just be uprfront with people.
    - bitwrangler 3y ago
      please elaborate on which licenses and certifications they have. Can I confirm those credentials, how will I know if they are industry recognized and respected instead of your own in-house certification.
p1necone 3y ago
> quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. You've certainly nailed the best way to articulate "we haven't worked out how to best phrase our bullshit to fly under the radar" though.
- christalwang 3y ago
  We've just changed our language with the support of our care team and the folks in this thread! Super open to more suggestions if it can better represent what we're doing (ADHD Coaching)
  - p1necone 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - christalwang 3y ago
      We weren't advertising anything that isn't true. We do have qualified mental health professionals on our coaching team (many of them are), but we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all. The threads here helped us understand how it was coming off (not in terms of true or not, but in terms of how it read/implied) so we switched the ordering. Happy to expand more or change anything that isn't true or is deceptive!
      - p1necone 3y ago
        > we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all You are providing medical services, trying to claim you aren't is absurd. Changing the wording to claim you aren't to avoid legal liability is exactly the kind of deception people are calling you out on.
        scrollaway 3y ago
        Hey maybe take it down a bit? It’s not absurd that they aren’t providing medical services. Right now it feels like you just want to shit on them as much as possible and your responses quickly shifted from “feedback” to “fuck you”.

Apreche 3y ago

You say you haven't found a way to articulate it. You should articulate it exactly the way you do in this comment. You are not providing licensed medical services. Just come out and say it, since it's true. Yes, saying that will cause people to distrust you, and well it should. You are right about there being a shortage, but there is no substitute for a real doctor. That said, being upfront about it instead of trying to beat around the bush or make excuses doesn't help you. It only serves to make you even more untrustworthy. Your attempts to obscure the fact that you aren't providing real medical service only suggests that you know in your heart that what you are providing is not the same. If you believed your "coaches" were good enough, you wouldn't have to do anything at all to hide the fact that they were not real doctors. You could just come out and say it.

christalwang 3y ago
Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services. We are most definitely not trying to substitute a real doctor. Full stop. We hope that is clear in all of our communications and website, and do NOT try to obscure that. However, we do a lot of work to work with the right experts (which include clinicians, psychiatrists, etc.) to ensure what we do it safe, follows best practice, is science-backed, and is effective. And we definitely want to highlight this work that has been done and the importance of it. We will update the language to better reflect this immediately.
- ranting-moth 3y ago
  > Shimmer is NOT clinical and we do NOT provide licensed medical services In which case I personally find the phrase "All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals" to be quite deceptive.
  - christalwang 3y ago
    Thank you for pinpointing this. I re-read many times, and I agree with you. I've just re-written the whole section with our Lead Coaching Psychologist, Xenia.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - agentdrtran 3y ago
      Your website has photos of the doctors for the "care team" and coaches buried under a link. Come on, just be uprfront with people.
  - bitwrangler 3y ago
    please elaborate on which licenses and certifications they have. Can I confirm those credentials, how will I know if they are industry recognized and respected instead of your own in-house certification.

p1necone 3y ago

> quite frankly I agree we haven't nailed the best way to articulate it. You've certainly nailed the best way to articulate "we haven't worked out how to best phrase our bullshit to fly under the radar" though.

christalwang 3y ago
We've just changed our language with the support of our care team and the folks in this thread! Super open to more suggestions if it can better represent what we're doing (ADHD Coaching)
- p1necone 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - christalwang 3y ago
    We weren't advertising anything that isn't true. We do have qualified mental health professionals on our coaching team (many of them are), but we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all. The threads here helped us understand how it was coming off (not in terms of true or not, but in terms of how it read/implied) so we switched the ordering. Happy to expand more or change anything that isn't true or is deceptive!
    - p1necone 3y ago
      > we changed the language so it didn't seem like they were providing medical services at all You are providing medical services, trying to claim you aren't is absurd. Changing the wording to claim you aren't to avoid legal liability is exactly the kind of deception people are calling you out on.
      - scrollaway 3y ago
        Hey maybe take it down a bit? It’s not absurd that they aren’t providing medical services. Right now it feels like you just want to shit on them as much as possible and your responses quickly shifted from “feedback” to “fuck you”.