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This is not only a "market of ideas", but a virtual world. And in the sense that it is a virtual world, you're also telling him "you can't exist here". Which i

This is not only a "market of ideas", but a virtual world. And in the sense that it is a virtual world, you're also telling him "you can't exist here". Which is a pretty shitty thing to say regardless, but when the real world withers away from us a little more every year, it starts to become monstrous.

sanderjd 3y ago
Where does "you can't exist here" come from? I don't think it's common for people who just get downvotes frequently (not flags, but just downvotes) to get kicked off the site (or out of the "virtual world", if you prefer).
- throw16180339 3y ago
  Many Reddit subreddits use AutoModerator to automatically remove comments by users with substantial negative karma, e.g. -49 or lower. There are definitely false positives, but this policy removes a lot of drive-by troll comments.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    This is the second time recently that I have been participating in a thread about moderation on HN and people have responded with comments talking about moderation on reddit... I don't get it. We're not talking about reddit here, we're talking about HN.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      Moderation is moderation. Don't pretend that it is significantly different from place to place. I mean, I guess we can just talk about HN if you want. Yay, circumstances were such that HN moderation isn't as shitty as reddit, and may even remain that way for the lifespan of the site. How long is that anyway? Will HN be around 30 years from now? 5? It's so much smaller, that how many unlucky heart attacks or misfortunately early deaths would derail it? Is that a higher-than-single-digit number? So, any discussion of purely HN moderation (besides those asking for input on policy adjustments) aren't talking about anything long term and pointlessly self-congratulatory.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        > Moderation is moderation. No, moderation varies wildly from place to place. As do the rules and guidelines that the moderation is driven by. Each community has to figure this out for itself. It is, really and truly, ridiculous, to bring up how moderation works on reddit, when discussing moderation on HN. It's an entirely different group of human beings working from an entirely different set of guidelines using an entirely different set of tools. It's just a total non sequitur. > I mean, I guess we can just talk about HN if you want. This whole discussion is about HN! We're discussing a link to the HN guidelines! Like, what made you think we're in any way talking about something else? What in the world are you even talking about with the rest of this? It just seems entirely unrelated to the topic.
compiler-guy 3y ago
People who don’t follow a social situation’s rules and norms don’t get invited back. It’s true of parties, shopping centers, and Hacker News. I don’t think that’s a problem.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  Well, when you put it that way... Of course, if we alter your metaphor only ever so slightly, then you don't need an invitation to the public square, the town council meeting, or the bus stop bench. And internet forums have certainly been happy to take the place of those things when it suits them, but without the inclusivity they require. They want the benefits of being those things, without the tradeoffs. We see no effort being made for them to not be those things. I suspect a strong correlation between those who see no reason to be concerned by that, and HOA members who sneak out at 5:45am to measure your front lawn's grass with rulers.
lliamander 3y ago
> you're also telling him "you can't exist here". No, we are saying his behavior is unacceptable, and that if he wishes to participate in this community he will need to conform to those standards. It is not a mercy to allow bad behavior in order to be more "welcoming". What if this were an in-person community, and the above commenter had a problem with personal space and non-consenual touching? Not only are you driving everyone else away, but you are also risking legal consequences (or worse). The way to help such people is have firm boundaries and clear rules. If the above commenter had any question about what constituted an acceptable comment, he could refer to the HN guidelines which the subject of this very thread.

sanderjd 3y ago

Where does "you can't exist here" come from? I don't think it's common for people who just get downvotes frequently (not flags, but just downvotes) to get kicked off the site (or out of the "virtual world", if you prefer).

throw16180339 3y ago
Many Reddit subreddits use AutoModerator to automatically remove comments by users with substantial negative karma, e.g. -49 or lower. There are definitely false positives, but this policy removes a lot of drive-by troll comments.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  This is the second time recently that I have been participating in a thread about moderation on HN and people have responded with comments talking about moderation on reddit... I don't get it. We're not talking about reddit here, we're talking about HN.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    Moderation is moderation. Don't pretend that it is significantly different from place to place. I mean, I guess we can just talk about HN if you want. Yay, circumstances were such that HN moderation isn't as shitty as reddit, and may even remain that way for the lifespan of the site. How long is that anyway? Will HN be around 30 years from now? 5? It's so much smaller, that how many unlucky heart attacks or misfortunately early deaths would derail it? Is that a higher-than-single-digit number? So, any discussion of purely HN moderation (besides those asking for input on policy adjustments) aren't talking about anything long term and pointlessly self-congratulatory.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      > Moderation is moderation. No, moderation varies wildly from place to place. As do the rules and guidelines that the moderation is driven by. Each community has to figure this out for itself. It is, really and truly, ridiculous, to bring up how moderation works on reddit, when discussing moderation on HN. It's an entirely different group of human beings working from an entirely different set of guidelines using an entirely different set of tools. It's just a total non sequitur. > I mean, I guess we can just talk about HN if you want. This whole discussion is about HN! We're discussing a link to the HN guidelines! Like, what made you think we're in any way talking about something else? What in the world are you even talking about with the rest of this? It just seems entirely unrelated to the topic.

compiler-guy 3y ago

People who don’t follow a social situation’s rules and norms don’t get invited back. It’s true of parties, shopping centers, and Hacker News. I don’t think that’s a problem.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
Well, when you put it that way... Of course, if we alter your metaphor only ever so slightly, then you don't need an invitation to the public square, the town council meeting, or the bus stop bench. And internet forums have certainly been happy to take the place of those things when it suits them, but without the inclusivity they require. They want the benefits of being those things, without the tradeoffs. We see no effort being made for them to not be those things. I suspect a strong correlation between those who see no reason to be concerned by that, and HOA members who sneak out at 5:45am to measure your front lawn's grass with rulers.

lliamander 3y ago

> you're also telling him "you can't exist here". No, we are saying his behavior is unacceptable, and that if he wishes to participate in this community he will need to conform to those standards. It is not a mercy to allow bad behavior in order to be more "welcoming". What if this were an in-person community, and the above commenter had a problem with personal space and non-consenual touching? Not only are you driving everyone else away, but you are also risking legal consequences (or worse). The way to help such people is have firm boundaries and clear rules. If the above commenter had any question about what constituted an acceptable comment, he could refer to the HN guidelines which the subject of this very thread.